Sue Langley on How to Retrain Your Brain

expert wisdom, and practical tips to help you stop sleepwalking through life and start living it on your terms. You ready to wake up and thrive? Let's go. Hello, welcome back to our podcast. Sue, your ASU podcast or episode with us went really well and people were like, we want to know more. We want to know more science, more data, more research. So, we're going to hand the reins over to you for a little bit of this podcast and we're going back to positive psychology school. So, I thought it would be really important because we didn't touch on this last

human flourishing, whether it's individuals, teams, organizations, communities. The important thing is it's the scientific study of. So it's not just pop psychology that we all think, oh that'd be nice, but it's the scientific study of of human flourishing. Um, and one day it probably will just go back to being psychology. But because we've probably spent over 100 years studying what is wrong with people as in deficit or traditional psychology, it's been an opportunity to swing the pendulum the other way and say, what does it look like when somebody is flourishing? What does it look like when a team is being their absolute best? When an organization is being beneficent, not just profitable. Um, what do those sorts of things look like? Beneficent. Yeah. See, that's what I love about sitting here and listening to you, sir. It expands my vocabulary. If only I knew what it meant and how to pronounce it or pronounce it correctly. Beneficent. Yes. You pronounced it beautifully. It's the giving back. So if you think about a dimension with zero in the middle, - 10 + 10 - 10 would be unprofitable. Mhm. Zero is profitable. Mhm. Beneficent is the plus 10. As in not just am I profitable, but am I giving back in some way? Am I making a difference to the world? Am I doing what we think of as regenerative positive psychology? We're making the world a better place through our profit, if you like, which is kind of cool. Live a beneficent. Live a beneficent life. Yes. Or you can even tackle meism. I know you're going to love meism. Look that one up. I'll leave that one for you. Come on. Come on. The school has homework. Wait, that's why we school. I love this. So, one of my big awakenings of learning about positive psychology was actually and I brought props in to talk about it today to simplify it because that's what we do. You simplify the research and we simplify the simplify research, right? And that's how we are beneficium.

us alive. It's really important. It forms structures of safety, of love, of food and and it's it it's very very powerful fear and negativity. It's also the sex sound of the 80s. Really? Velcro. Or maybe it was the sex sound of the ' 90s. Either way, it was sex. You're married to a rockstar and I'm older than you. I had a leather dress and it had Velcro. So, well behave, babe. So, Teflon Glad Wrap is happiness. You have to look for it, talk about it, write about it, and train the brain to see it for it to stick and gather in your brain or in your life. So the more you look for it, the more you see it, the more you're grateful for it, the more you will attract and then all of a sudden it becomes more powerful than Velcro or fear. Is that a way a nice way? It's not It's not as environmentally disastrous. I'm trying to rip it off, too. I'll take that home. She will reuse these two with her beneficent. But that's a really good question. Um it's a very simplified way of doing it. But basically whatever you train your brain to look for is going to look for. Um actually uh a new research paper literally came out today uh around uh the way the brain is wired around this sort of negativity and positivity. And

to have a positive conversation and they've actually linked this to certain areas of the brain like the vententral stratum which is the area that helps produce dopamine around reward sensation. So if you think about that, it depends on what I train my brain to do. So yes, I still want my brain to be able to look after me in a threatening situation, but can we train our brain to be more like Glad Rap or whatever? Then of course we can. It depends what we're looking for. Is that not called muscle memory? Well, in theory, you'd know it's not a muscle because the brain isn't a muscle principle. It's a term, right? Muscle memory. So for example, you know, you're talking about if you are cons if you if you know you're going to come in here and have a a positive conversation, there's a lot of circumstances or put that into a memory or a knowledge or a belief, right? So for example, we love talking to you. So we naturally consider that the minute we walk in here, we know we're going to have a great conversation with you. So the the first thing that popped up for me just then was well one of my personal one of my coaches as a trainer who was a kickboxing world champion actually Adam told me to never come in after a if I'm surfing never come in on a wave that I've fallen on because my next surf I'm going to fall on my first wave. Is it a similar because you're focusing on what you It is the only challenge with that is then that's just primed you to never do that wave again. Yeah. Well to never do that again. So to always come in on a wave that I've finished, that I've completed standing. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm now going to think or believe well cuz a thought repeated over time becomes a belief. Yeah. And that anchors my behavior is that if I do that, then the ne I'm guaranteed to fall on the first wave I catch the next time I say. And if you've primed yourself, you probably are. What if you primed yourself differently and believe that you could still tackle that wave, which I have now. Yeah. Yeah. So if I fall and I come in, I just wipe it clean and go, "Okay, that was today. That was a way." That does not dictate what happens to me tomorrow. I was going to say your surf time just went up. That's why you're out there for so long. I cannot come in on the wave that I've fallen. And sometimes I do relinguish and I just go, "Okay, I've just don't have the energy left in me to do it." Anyway, that was a random just a random. It's actually beautiful because the first um what can we learn from Sue is actually what can we learn about labels? And that felt like a label, right? You can't come in unless you have a good wave. Yeah. What do we learn about labels? What do we know? Yeah. So, I love this sort of stuff around how we can label ourselves or we

get fitter and healthier, but I've put myself in the category of the I'm not sporty category. M how am I going to get fitter and healthier if I've already primed myself to go I'm not sporty? Um I want to do a qualification for my job cuz I want a career move but I'm in the category of I'm not intelligent. It's can be really hard to then even start to do the study in the first place and way easier to give up because oh I've never been intelligent so I can't do it. I want to learn another language but I am not really good at retaining information. Brilliant. Yeah. And the other category around that around language learning what you hear all the time is it's so much easier when you're younger. Apparently it is. It's literally just that to say that. Yeah. But that's a category, isn't it? There's no reason you can't. It's just that usually what happens is you learn a bit and then you plateau like everybody does. But then we go, "Oh, see, I can't do it." Everybody plateaus at some point um in most things that we do, whatever we're learning to do, cuz it gets harder. So you plateau for a bit and then we give up because we go, "Oh, see, I knew I couldn't learn a language." And we say it's easier when we're younger. Is that because we just have more bandwidth? Oh, look, there is. But think about it. When you're younger, you don't know anything. Like, like when you're four or five, you don't know anything. Oh, no. You think you know everything. Well, you do when you get a teenager. When you get older, you know a lot. So, therefore, there neural pathways have been embedded around what you know. So learning and but again I think we shoot ourselves in the foot psychologically by saying you can't teach an old dog new tricks or whatever those categories are that actually before we know it we're psychologically giving up before we've actually even tried. Yes. And yet all of us have learned new things. All of us have trained our brain to do things if we want to put in the effort. The often again the get out clause is I'm too old to learn. So it actually means I don't want to put in the effort. Yeah. Right. What language would you learn? French. Really? Well, you're welcome to take Benji to French lessons with you and see how that goes. Adopt a four-year-old mindset and learn again. Yeah. Adopt the beginner's mind. Guys, I cannot wait to see Lane and Benji in a French lesson. You speak French. Do you speak French? High level.

Y. Can you explain to Lane what it was about? Well, Ellen Lang has done some amazing research in this space and I think she should be probably way more famous than she is, but um she's done many studies. One in particular, Ellen Langanger and Aaliyah Crumb. They looked at uh people in sort of an age care and nursing home which often when you think about it that then creates a category as in old which has implied rules that go with that category of what you can and can't do. Um and they did a very simple intervention where it was a two-story uh building and they did an intervention with only the people on the first floor where the people on the first floor the residents got given a plant to look after and they got given a choice of dinner sitting. So the residents never got a choice before but the people on the first floor were told you can have the early or the late sitting. What would you choose at the end of 12 months? The uh drop in mortality rate for the people on the first floor was 40%. Wow. What did those two things give? Yeah. That is normally an implied rule of aging. Choice. Okay. So, the first thing is choice. Autonomy. They could choose dinner. And that's often taken away when we get old. Yes. Caring for something outside of themselves. Yeah. I matter. I matter. Purpose. Purpose. Yeah, I matter to this plant. There's this plant will die without me. Yeah. And whether who cares really, but I hate killing. That's what I mean. You do it so well. That's true. That's really I killed a kid just once. Well, clearly you wouldn't mind that. Yeah, that still hurts. And I I think it's just really interesting that those two simple interventions, they counteract some of the implied rules that we often put around the category of old. Yeah, that's why I I passionately dislike labels and I love to break rules. Yeah. Well, you'll love this one. Um the the anti-aging research or study where they recreated a home for people. Was it in the 50s? Yes. So they actually did it in 1979, but they recreated it as if it was 1959. Yeah. And this was her sort of groundbreaking study of basically taking 70-year-old men and then living in line with how they were 20 years previously. And they found all sorts of biometric shifts around u blood pressure reduced. Um some people reduced medication uh grip strength increased stoop reduced gate when they um walked one person through a stick away. Yeah. these sorts of things because they had been treated as if they were 20 years younger. And what I really love, they replicated that with a BBC um TV series uh in 2010, I want to say. Uh and they also did it again across I think it was something like 80 age care homes in Italy in 2018, 2019 to see if you treated people as if they're younger. Um it makes a difference. And the example that I always use is if you if you've got a good personal trainer, they'll use music from when you were at your strongest and fittest. Yeah, which mine does. There's a lot of music from the 90s, baby. Got a hair metal. Hey, that is actually Yeah, good. I'm going to actually ask this. What can we learn from Metallica?

collective effvescence. And when I went to see Metallica fairly recently, it was a perfect example of that. Um, so collective effvescence is a um uh includes an intense emotion. So often when we're in those collective things, there's a a heightened emotion. It could be awe, it could be joy, it could be wonder, it could be ecstasy, it could be pride. Um sometimes it can be more the negative emotions too, which is a possible. Um, so that's one thing. Very rarely would you go to a Metallica concert and with a negative emotion. Not a Metallica concert, but collective efforts can occur at funerals. Oh, of course. Yes. Yes. I would get that at Metallica. I don't really like I have an allergic reaction to heavy rock heavy metal. I've got to say it does a couple of ballads. So, so the first thing, this is not about Metallica. It's about the theory. Um but the the other thing is um there is a usually a shared action when you experience collective effvescence. It's because there's a shared action as in everybody is focused on the same thing. So everybody's focused on the band. They might be um doing certain actions. If you go to a sporting event, collective effvescence is um if you see a Mexican wave go around an arena, that's a shared action. Everybody's in it together. Or when Port Adelaide do Never Tear Us Apart at the start of the game. Any of those sorts of things. that is a collective where everybody's attention is in the action that they're doing if you like or focused on the same thing. Is there like a number that it like? Can you get Oh, hold that thought. Hold because then I'm going to ask you. So, this is you know learning to start doing a Mexican. I wanted to start singing never tear us apart. Then the other thing is there is a sense of loss of self. So you are part of a whole a bit like the bait fish balls that have been up in Byron at the moment where you're one of a a shared. You don't have your own identity cuz you're and and at the Metallica concert people were talking about is family. everybody you're talking next to you. There might be some hardy bargi, you know, when people start dancing and people trip and fall because you're so jammed in, but nobody is being mean to each other and there's this shared sense that you're all in it together. And um then if you think about the um other element is there's a social bonding. We connect with people because of that shared action that we're all involved in. Everybody connects. So there's this sense of um bonding, camaraderie because you're all, as I say, in it at the same time. And this can happen anywhere. So where else can it happen? Where else have you seen that collective effvescence? Well, we have a family Olympics every year. Maybe. And I feel like cuz we're all present, everyone's energized, there's a competitive angle to it like and and everyone's centered around it. So I feel like I can experience that at home. Maybe. Yeah. We're going to win collective effvescence. I'm thinking funerals, concerts, sporting events. Um church. Yeah. So cultural or religious festivities. Yeah. Um could be Do you get it in the surf? Like if everyone's surfing, do you have you've ever felt that? Uh actually in the wave pool. Ah because we're not all scrambling for waves. We're all lined up. So there's a Yeah, there's a there's a rule. Yeah. When you're competing, probably not because you're not one of a shared whole and you know, one's going to win and one's going to lose. So okay, there goes Christmas Olympics. Yeah, maybe there's a but think about anything. Uh, it could be choirs. It could be um religious festivities. If you go to a carol concert over Christmas, that would be potentially an opportunity for that. Actually, you know where else I experienced it is on the grass at about 9 10:00 at night in front of the Eiffel Tower when the lights started sparkling. Brilliant. So, this is another thing. It could be cultural things, whether it's light festivals, whether it's things like that where everybody is shared in that moment when something happens and everybody's in it together. You might not be necessarily, you're probably not talking. I didn't know anybody there except my husband, but then we start talking to other people. That's that shared bonding. And I love that. I just love the idea of how do we create that? Because if we do, um, think about how that then flows out about how you feel when you come out. So there were at the Metallica concert basically I don't know 80,000 people all dressed in black um that were oozing out of the arena afterwards and I suddenly found myself like 10 minutes later walking along in Brisbane was still with loads and loads of people with the people that I'd been standing next to in the arena back by my side and we're chatting away about various things and you know totally different to me age range gender range everything but everybody's in it together and I think when you experience that that collective effrovescence. It creates a bonding that can then flow into other things which I think is kind of special. Yeah, that is so special. And Metallica also do a lot of give backs as well. So yeah, they have meaning. All Within My Hands Foundation, they've um donated millions and millions of dollars. And in fact, on our social media post, somebody commented today that they were um at uh an event in their local uh state of Columbus, Ohio, and um the band showed up to donate food to the homeless. A and so he had met them. So cool. So, lots of good stuff. Do you know what I love? I love that you can get that with Metallica or Taylor Swift. Like that is like there's an element where it's not just about music, right? It's about effevescence. Yeah. Lifting. Yeah. All right. And bene beneficence.

life. So if you literally go back to you know ancient Greece they were talking about hedonia which is the pleasurable life and udemonia which is the meaningful life and often we kind of need a balance of that. You know, you need the fun, you need the joy, you need the moments of levity. And you know, most human beings need to have a sense of meaning and purpose and making a difference. We we feel lost sometimes without it. But psychological richness uh is she oishi's work and um he's basically sort of looked at people's obituaries from around the world and said when people die, what do people say about them? And there seems to be more to it than just they lived a meaningful life or a pleasurable life. that often they live lived an interesting life or a varied life or a dramatic life or an eventful life. So they then did research across I think 20 plus countries to say what type of life do we want to live and a significant percentage of people said they want the eventful, the dramatic, the eventful. Now you have to bear in mind psychologically rich means some of those eventful things are not always great. No. But would we still want them? And I think well I know I do. I love the idea of a psychologically rich life. Yeah. 100%. I just want to know how do we get on to one of those surveys where we're part of that data collection. No, I want to see the data collection and go into it. That's the difference between you and I, right? I believe I live a psychologically rich life. So, how do you create it? Intentionally. By doing things that light me up, by being surrounded by people who I love and and challenging myself. Going outside of my comfort zone. Um, as uh as Michael Jave suggested, you know, extending that danger line where I'm I'm always expanding on my on my comforts um and doing things that I've never done before. Brilliant. And this is all Sheay talks about with a psychologically rich life. It's not that you suddenly have to turn everything upside down and turn your life upside down.

fun. What do you do? What What would you do? Depends. To have a psychologically rich life. For me to have a psychologically rich life. So, it depends on how you feel at the time, but I know um David and I often when we've gone to a restaurant, we'll deliberately pick something on the menu. We don't even know what it is. That's risky. It was really cool. We went to an Argentinian once and that's even more risky. said it was black something and we got these black chips with black beans and it was delicious and I'm just like that's really cool. You have got a high risk profile. But then there are other days where you might want comfort. Yeah. Like I know myself if I'm needing to feel comfortable it'll be Gorgoni every time. Yeah. Wow. That's a good meal. So do you what would you choose when you're uh I would definitely like it's interesting when you talk about it from psychologically richness. Um I'm always looking for the healthier option but is that necessarily always answering a psychological need for myself? So if I need comfort and for a psychologically rich life, I'm always ordering hot chips. That's comfortable. So that would be the pleasure. That would be pleasure. Um preferably with truffle fries or just chocolate Charlie's hot chips. But um if if I really wanted to live like extreme like do something I don't know out of my comfort zone, I would order. It sounds so just saying it. Um like a pasta like a gorgonola pasta like something like a truffle like something that is really del like rich and creamy the pleasurable. Yeah. But I know my body would really my body would not help like love me for that. Yeah. Right. Well, because my dietary requirements are so strict. I do like ordering things that I've never eaten before as long as they fit within the criteria of grain free, dairy free, red meat free, and gluten free. Yeah, that is the challenge sometimes. I just make sure it's meat free. But again, think about the psychological richness. It could be anything. It could be going down a different street on your run in the morning. It could be um looking for something different, choosing, I don't know, you read the same books or watch the same TV shows and you deliberately watch something that you don't understand. You know, I watched an Italian show about a called Something About Rex that was done in Italian and it was about a dog police person and it was like or police person can't have that police dog and a person but it was just kind of really cool to do something different and watch something different. Yeah. So essentially it's opening yourself up to things that you don't normally do. Yes. and being prepared for the fact that sometimes life will throw eventful and dramatic things at you that you still are going to have to deal with that you may not have chosen. Okay. Yeah.

and she says, "You get what you need, not always what you want." classic Rolling Stones reference there. Whilst we're on the rockstar theme, how do you manage the tension so it eventually feels okay? Yeah. And I think that's an interesting thing because we c we often can't control certain things that life throws at us. I mean, we can we can make choices along the way, but sometimes life is going to throw you a curveball that you may not be prepared for and you may not want. Is it what you need? It might be at times. Um, and I have a theory that, um, I call feather brick truck that I'll come back to. But, um, I'm anchoring on that on this. If you think about it, you might not always want it, but what can you learn from it? And it might be that life throws something at you that you initially would really rather have not experienced. And are you going to say at the end of it, you're glad you've experienced it and you really wanted it? Maybe, maybe not. But still, if we learn from it, it changes how that defines us. M it it's not necessarily that we needed to have it happen. Um maybe it was designed to teach us something etc. But sometimes people will learn from it and sometimes people won't. It's when we learn from it that actually it can help us grow into whatever the next thing that life is going to throw at you is. Well, I think about the two boys that you were in hospital with with Alex and Harrison and how they uh were teenagers, had bad accidents, ended up in wheelchairs for the rest of their lives. And Tess asked them, "Would you go back to being the healthy, able-bodied teenager that you were before this accident?" And they both said no. Which was incredibly surprising. Yeah. Learning and growth has come from it. There might be some people who' go, "Yes, I would." But that is usually because we haven't adapted and we haven't learned from something and we've valued things differently perhaps from the difficulties that happen. or perhaps we just haven't forgiven ourselves or we just yearn and crave what the life was before this particular accident. And and I feel sorry for those kind of people that that aren't willing to for lack of a better word and maybe this might come across as a lack of compassion but it's feeling accept you accept what's happened to you and a lot of people don't. Yeah. And it could be a lack of tools. So I don't have the tools in my kit to get past it. Or sometimes it can be that we're rewarded for staying in it, whatever that might be. So we might get a reward sensation because actually um it's come to define us in a certain way and we get attention for that. So we we're getting rewarded sometimes in some way for not moving on. Right. Yeah. Interesting. I can see this in Benji. he got sick recently and when he said I feel sick, everyone went to him and it's continued on and he's not sick and I was like ah he actually like he'll say mommy I feel sick but really he just wants my love and attention. So I'm trying to like work through that rewiring as well. Um you touched on something really interesting that we've been grappling with. So this podcast is coming out in our new year best you season in January. Um well this podcast

doing the work. So it was hard for people to enter in because they're like why what do I need? I don't want to open that dark corner or my life is pretty good and we're like well it can be better. So it was so we've played around and we've landed on um it's be your best self and live your best life and that psychological richness comes in cuz we thought about this from a well what does that mean be your best self cuz life isn't thriving all the time. You're going to go through psychological hardships, but how do we or how do the tools that we teach give people the comfort that they can get through that particularly awful time, but the best version of themselves within that? Yeah. And I often think that it's about showing up as the best version of me more frequently. Yeah. So, I often add more frequently because there's going to be days I'm not going to be the best version of myself and that's okay. Or I can beat myself up about it and then feel worse and worse and worse. Or I can go, do you know what? That wasn't a good moment. That wasn't my best self. What tools have I got in my tool kit? And to your point, all of us, life is going to throw difficulties at us. So it is important to have those tools in our toolkit. And you know, one of my sayings is positive psychology wonderful on the good day is essential on the bad. On the good days, you don't think you need it. My life's fine. I don't need these tools. On the bad days, you'll be really good. You've made them habitual. M cuz I I think about um you showing up to training on the days when I didn't feel like it, which was really beneficial because there were days when I didn't feel like competing, but it was the training that I did on those days when I felt that same way that reinforced the belief that I could still perform on the days when I wasn't feeling my best. And I think that's the same when it comes to our well-being is we don't think about it when everything's going smoothly. And then we really wish we had the tools in our tool kit when it's not. And it's kind of a bit late. Yeah. Now you mentioned feathers and

brick truck as in if there's something you're doing that's kind of not working initially life will tickle you with a feather and try and get your attention. If you don't pay attention it will throw a brick at you. If you still don't pay attention it will hit you like a truck. We have both been hit by those trucks. We've been tickled by the feathers, cracked on the head by the brick, hit by the truck, and then they said to another one. But this is the thing. If we listened maybe when there was a feather, it'd be a little easier. Much easier. Yeah. With feather brick truck, how what can we learn about primal beliefs? Like are we primed to ignore the feather? Oh, the brick, the truck. Primal beliefs is a little different and it's a big area of study that's now happening around the world uh in the positive psychology arena. Um and uh Dr. Jack Clifton sort of started the research a few years ago and has been given millions of dollars of funding to literally hundreds of people are now working on around the world and it's looking at what are our primal beliefs as humans. Uh the overarching primal belief is do you believe the world is good or bad? That's the first thing. Some people believe the world is good. Some people believe the world is bad. And by world, that might be how you perceive it. It might be some people might think of humans as the world. Some people go broader as far as people, planet, nature, etc. Um, so that's the first one. And then they've got these sort of underlying beliefs that sort of build into this. Do you believe the world is good or bad? And I'm not going to remember them all for you, but do you believe the world is safe or unsafe is one. Do you believe the world is something like beautiful or enticing or not? Do you believe the world is alive, vibrant or not? And then there are subsequent ones under that is do you believe the world is harmful or harmless, cooperative or uncooperative, stable, instable, etc. And they've looked at how this plays out in linking it to how does it link to religious beliefs? How does it link to personality preferences? How does it link to well-being? I'm sure it won't be a surprise to you that if we go up to that overarching belief was good or bad, people who believe the world is good tend to have higher levels of wellbeing. Not surprising. Well, Jerk Clifton actually said because he did this research initially before he had a child and he his um partner was pregnant and they had a baby just after he'd done his first round of research and he said it's going to change my way of parenting because um the research came out that parents who believe the world is safe end up with more flourishing children. If you teach your child that the world is unsafe, actually children's well-being is imp impacted by that. And we think about that from a brain perspective. We're often trying to protect ourselves, etc. And we often see as parents, we want to protect our child, but are we sending the message that the world is unsafe and therefore are we changing the beliefs in that child that is going to lead them to struggle from a wellbeing perspective, which I think is interesting. Yeah, it's very interesting. And as I raise a young boy, there is elements of where I think this is incredibly unsafe, but it's incredibly important that he navigates himself around it to test himself. Cuz I saw this research that we say no or don't to our kids over 40,000 times versus yes 5,000 times by the time they reach like adolescence. So if they're constantly hearing don't do that or be careful or we're reinforcing the fear that it's not safe. So I'm really trying as a parent to relearn that moment to say where are your feet like keep your eyes up or be balanced towards what you do want. Yeah. Even though I know that it could be incredibly unsafe like he's about to fall out of a tree. I'm like where are your hands? It's like, but I see this also in the way that Tess raises Benji is because of her neck injury, she wants him to avoid anything that could potentially get him involved in any style of injury. So, I won't let him play contact sports or, you know, get be the the boy that he wants to be. So, that creates another level of fear and trepidation, which is totally understandable. Absolutely. To your point around language, I think it was really interesting. I don't know if it was the same person but um LRA Boraditsky who's a anthropologist she did research with um uh western parents and then she went to a tribe in uh somewhere in South America where very little contact with any western um living in the jungle and living on the side of a cliff and have bonfires at night and she very rarely heard the words no and don't to the children running around and yet the children did not fall off the cliff and that did not fall into the fire. Yeah, they figure it out very quickly, don't they? gets a bit hot. Have you been listening to this episode and thought, "Mike drop. Maybe I'm ready to get coached or have some therapy, but you don't want to go all the way down and get a therapist." Welcome to the Awake Collective, where we do monthly coaching to help people feel accountable, supported, and they keep on doing the work that you hear in this podcast. It is life transformative, right LB? It's a community of support and like-minded people who are willing to keep investing in themselves because what we do is we help people help themselves. If you've enjoyed what you've heard today, then the Awake Collective is for you. So, come and join us at awakeacademy.com.au and join us for monthly coaching, a community that supports you and tools that you can use in your life to thrive. Let's go. See you there. Feeling good is really important to me. As a professional athlete, I really rely heavily on finding the best fuel I can for my body. And that's how I came across micronutrition. I start my day every day with a big glass of water and a heap teaspoon of magnesium powder. And then I boost my immunity because I work really hard with their vitamin C. Micro Nutrition have a range of supplements that will suit everyone's needs. So visit micronutrition.com.au you and use our code await 10 for 10% off. You know what I mean? Someone sent to us they wanted to bottle up our energy. So, we did. The reason why we did though is we needed a product that sustained energy, supports our immunity, supports our mental clarity so we can get up and go and host this podcast. It only has seven ingredients including mushrooms, cortiseps, and turkey tail, which gives you so much mental clarity and focus. It's TGA listed and it's available now on our website. So visit awakeacademy.com.au and try some wake up today. What can we learn about from bees? What can we learn about from bees? I love the stuff that comes out of the researchers that helps me. It's a bit like what you you always do. You're trying to make it real and practical for people. So I like to read widely all these different research papers. And

one bumblebee um happy, you give it a extra, you know, sugary drink or nectar or something that it likes. Not quite. I don't know if they actually ble at honey. No, they produced the worker bees. The bumblebees don't anyway. Um, so, um, but if you give one bee, um, something that makes it happy. So, as I say, extra sugary nectar or tickle under a little. I don't know if you did that, but sharpen it stink. I don't know. What do you do? Even if you keep it separate from the other bees, so it can't smell the other bees or use pherommones. So, there's a a perspect thing between the rest of the bees. Other bees start to get happier. And they test this by what flowers do the other bees land on? Um, ambiguous flowers or whatever. So, they've tested this that even bees have emotional contagion, as in one little bee can make a hive of bees happy in the way it dances, the way it moves, somehow it makes the other bees happy. And I think that is just so delightful, the idea of little dancing bees making each other happy, landing on happy plas, but it's kind of like us and we underestimate the impact of this emotional contagion. Um, but the other thing we can learn from bees, which I really love, and this study came out quite a few years ago, which was to do with genetics. So, um, if you there's a particular Africanized bee that is quite, uh, aggressive. I imagine a big scary bee is not very nice and it will sting you no matter what. Um, and then there are other bees that are really calm. I think they were from Puerto Rico or something that there's a particular type of bee that's really calm and basically is probably never going to sting you. It's perfectly, you know, jolly and happy. It's just stoned. Yeah, probably. and and what they've looked at is um the genetic um makeup is actually quite similar. So there's something that means one bee gets really aggressive and one bee doesn't even though genetically their coding is pretty much the same. And so what they found is if you take the the the big scary aggressive bee and you put it in a hive with the calm sedate bees, the aggressive bee is not aggressive. And again, what can we learn from that is that our environment is so important to us. You are not defined by your genes. You're not defined by this physical element all the time, but your environment will have a huge impact. And I think that's critical for well-being because it's thinking about what are you surrounding yourself by? What environment are you in? What might you want to change in your environment that might change how your little genetics, just like the little bees, start to express themselves? And I think there's something pretty cool in that. There's something so beautiful about the wisdom of nature. Yeah. Listen to it. I know. We forget that we are nature. Yeah. That's as we all say, if you're feeling blue, touch green. It's the quickest way to decompress the stress. But it's just fascinating that one big aggressive bee when you put it in a containment of very happy bees that it actually doesn't get aggressive anymore. I love that it had that opportunity. took one calm bee and put it in the aggressive beehive, it went the other way. I can imagine. So again, our environment shapes us. Safety and numbers. Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to my genes are going to express themselves in line with the environment that I'm in. Yeah. I think about uh a walk that I did um Mike B, former premier of New South Wales, had this thing called Project Uplift where he invited eight um successful Australians to mentor eight disadvantaged or disengaged youth. and we went off into the Kimbleies and we walked for a week um camped around the campfires and just engaged in that kind of way. But what was fascinating is as they got to see and learn and experience life outside of the regular environment that they adapted to that. But then they were thrust back into their old environment. So to your point about you what can you do to change your environment? Some of us just feel helpless in that there's nothing I can do but there is always something isn't there? There's usually something you can do. You might not want to do it. There is usually something you can do. And it could be identifying what aspects of your environment are impacting you in a not so positive way. And that could be a person. Mhm. That you no longer want in your environment. But that can be hard to say actually I don't want to see that person anymore. We can try. I don't want to see you. Yeah. It may not be, you know, you might not be able to do that all the time. But there probably are things that we can do if we're prepared to do it. M the challenge for us is it might get harder for a while. Yeah. And so we're not prepared to do it because we want the comfortable life. We want to make sure everything's safe and that's totally understandable. And yet sometimes those changes we make can actually change things for the better. Just choose your heart. Choose your heart. Okay. All right. This is a step change. What can we learn about our gut microbiome?

chemicals and all sorts of things that are in our environment and all those. Um but one of the the as I say the more recent one around this ultrarocessed foods is also finding that our psychological challenges are linked to the gut microbiome. So for many years people hadn't really thought about the gut and we all just kind of ate what we want and we had these ideas of you know yes it's good to eat healthy etc. Um but the fact that they're now direct links to uh things like um autism, social anxiety disorder, depression, anxiety etc. um that have been linked to it. Now, it's not saying it's the be all and end all, but again, this ultrarocessed foods is a three-part series, and it's pretty dramatic around the impact that it has, not just physically, but psychologically, and how our diets have changed over the years, which changes our microbiome, which therefore changes our physical and our mental well-being. And everything that that comes away from its natural form is a processed food. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, there was breads a processed food. there was links that soft drinks causes depression. Oh wow. Well, again, if you think about Yeah. Some of the things that we sort of put into our bodies, um, and again, I'm not saying I'm perfect at all, but some of the things that we put into our body are not helping us. They taste nice. They give us comfort. They give us the sugar hit. They give us all these sorts of things. Um, and again, it can be hard to move away from that if that's what you've grown up with. You've grown up with processed foods. You've grown up with soft drinks. Um, but again, I think about this with children. Um, it's sometimes easy to do the the lollies, the sweets, the soft drinks, etc. But you're actually shaping their microbiome for the future. Yeah. H my I hope my stepkids are going to listen to this right now cuz they are, oh, you take away all the fun foods and, oh, we're not allowed soft drinks at this house. And that's a category, fun foods. Yeah, I know. Why is McDonald's or soft drinks a fun food when it causes you anxiety, depression? Well, they don't see that. They just see how they feel. And also, all of their friends are doing it. So, why can't I do it? You're taking away you're actually you're separating me from my tribe by this. Well, I know um I had this conversation with my mom because she has lots of stomach upsets and she can't eat this and she can't eat that and whatever you and um and some of the things she can't eat are things like olive oil and garlic and various things. All the things that are really healthy. So sorry, but then she gets unwell quite regularly and it's like it can't possibly be the scones and cream and jam that she's having. But and so I said to her once about, you know, maybe it's time to shift those. And she said, "Oh, at my age, if I can't have a little bit of what I like, what's the point?" And I'm like, "But it's making you sick." I know, but it's easier to keep doing what we've always done than it is to sometimes make those changes. And I think about this with alcohol cuz like I know all of the health implications that alcohol shoot like has on your body and I've certainly like decrease my intake by a long shot because of how it makes me feel. But I still like to have a drink but then I can see like every if you constantly drink we know like and a lot of healthy people like I am really healthy so I can enjoy a drink. Yeah. Yeah. So let me pick up on this because it's a whole other area of research that's very exciting. Yes. Um uh if you think about the systems approach, alcohol is a perfect example. So let's imagine I want to drink less alcohol. I can learn about the what alcohol does for me from a brain perspective, a body perspective. And I can go, yeah, I get that. Okay, I know I need to drink less. So I'm going to have to use my willpower because that's what we expect. You know, come on, you you can do it and you got to self-regulate and not have it. But think about the systems um that we are surrounded by and think about how alcohol is within a system. Because if you go to any barbecue, if you go to a party and things like that, there will be alcohol present. If you go to a restaurant, it's not just that alcohol is present, it's that alcohol is celebrated. If you're a wine connoisseur, there is something wonderful about going through a wine list and knowing your wines and so on. So it's actually putting alcohol on that pedestal. Cultural efficence. Well, think about this. Alcohol is involved in everything we do. It's encouraged. It's systemic. It's, as I say, there's a a systems approach in that is everywhere that we are, but it's also valued in a certain way. So, we're expecting the single person to drum up some willpower to not have it. And yet, everything around you in the system is encouraging you to drink alcohol. I've grown up in a family that celebrated alcohol. My dad worked within the alcohol industry my whole life and I was basically sent to parties as a 16-year-old with cases of beer and it was all okay. So, how do we how do we change the system? Is it it's it's hard for one person to change the system unless again you shift your environment. Um and again I know or do you shift your own standards? Well, you can shift your standards because you'll then choose different environments. So again, I remember one lady who um on our diploma, she said one of her examples was when she gave up alcohol and everybody started saying to her, "But you're always the party girl. Where's the party person gone?" She's like, "I can still be fun without alcohol. It's possible." I remember I stopped drinking alcohol completely for 18 months just cuz I felt like it. But I still had somebody say to me, "Oh yeah, but you can drink at the weekends." I'm like, "Well, I can, but I'm choosing not to. Yeah, it's not about whether I can or not. Um, and and this particular person, she always does Feb fast, but she still drinks on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday cuz that's okay. Feb. You are not fasting. It's incredible that we have to go to these extremes or convince our brains something else or something different just to give us the permission to enjoy a drink or not. It's not to say we shouldn't if that's what people do. We've just got so much more evidence now whether it's the ultrarocessed foods, whether it's the soft drinks, whether it's the alcohol and then it's making choices. But unfortunately, we're wrapped up in a system where it's encouraged. Yeah. So, we need to change the system by changing ourselves. Yeah. Well, we're trying to do that at our house um and do well-being Sundays. So, people come over for ice baths and a barbecue with no alcohol or breakfast and bring me on Sundays, please. And and important that the kids see that there are other ways to socialize on the weekends that don't have to involve our fun. Hey, you're the big kid at those sorts of things, too. Yeah. I just don't want to sit in an ice bath. See, that's what it is. I'll grab the ice and put it in my drink. Hopefully soon I'll have a sauna and you can sit in that. That's it. That's exactly right. All right. Well, we need to wrap up now. So, we are kicking off a seven doctors challenge to invite people in to take better care of themselves. What sort of mindset would you like to give people for 2026

fail. I always think well cool that means 20% succeed. Yeah, that's the positive psychologist in here. So, yeah. So why do the 20% succeed? So what I'd ask people to think about in the mindset of remembering themselves when they're at their best, remembering what they've already done that they're proud of, remembering when they have nailed something before because they probably will trip and fall off their cushion at some point when they take on a challenge. All of us do. But reminding ourselves of the times when we've done this before and it's okay. Um not just beating ourselves up. And again, I'll give you an example. I remember um I've only ever been on a diet once and that was when I was I think I was about 14 or 15 cuz my mom believed she was fat and she would tell me I'm the same size as her. So she would be on diets all the time and um so I did one with her once. I said, "All right, we'll do it together 28 days or whatever." Cuz my mom was constantly start on a Monday and then she'd give up by Tuesday and then she'd give up for the rest of the week and start again on Monday. And it was kind of like okay classic self-sabotage. Yeah. So you stuff up on Tuesday, just Tuesday evening, get back on your cushion again, whatever your cushion is, you know, whatever it is you're trying to do. So I suppose that's the mindset of always pull yourself to the best version of you. You know you've done it before. You know you've been great at some point. You know you're proud of something. Go with that mindset and know that if you do fall off your cushion, get straight back on again. It's okay. And pluff puff it up and put it back on the couch where it belongs. Sue, it has been so wonderful talking to you today. It will be What have you learned from Sue today? What's something you're going to apply? Beneficence. That's what I've learned. And I have to keep repeating it 14,000 times to remind myself. And also look up meism because you doing that every day. You just don't know you're doing it. Millarism. All right. I'm going to look that up. Hey Google. No, there's perplexity. Yeah. So I am going to take forward just your joy of science and research and bringing it here. And I think it's something that I've learned so much from you is just making this stuff joyful. I think wellbeing has had such a bad rap because it's been so complex and almost negative to understand. So I just want to say thank you for giving all the listeners and us so much joy about science and research and making us feel like we can have a happy great life no matter what the circumstance. So thank you and um please follow Sue Langley on her LinkedIn because you give some really good research on there and there's some good stuff been recently. Yeah. So um and on your Instagram right Sue Langley. Yeah. Absolutely. So to everyone listening, what's their reminder to be their best selves and live their best lives? If you can give them a word or a phrase, how would you encourage people to do that? I would say add more frequently as in be your best self more frequently. What a beautiful ending to be your best self more. Shoulders back, chin up, breathe. All right. Thank you, S. We'll see you. We we'll invite you back on in another month or two. So, please send through your questions because ask Sue is one of our favorite episodes. So, from us to you, thank you Sue and be your best self more frequently. Thank you, Sue. Toodles. Have you been listening to this episode and thought, "Mike drop. Maybe I'm ready to get coached or have some therapy, but you don't want to go all the way down and get a therapist." Welcome to the Awake Collective where we do monthly coaching to help people feel accountable, supported, and they keep on doing the work that you hear in this podcast. It is life transformative. Right, LB? It's a community of support and like-minded people who are willing to keep investing in themselves because what we do is we help people help themselves. If you've enjoyed what you've heard today, then the Awake Collective is for you. So, come and join us at awakeacademy.com.au AU and join us for monthly coaching, a community that supports you and tools that you can use in your life to thrive. Let's go. See you there.