Mel Doyle on Reinventing Yourself, Identity & the Courage to Begin Again

packed with sciencebacked tools to beat burnout and boost happiness, hosted by us, Tess Brower, and seventime world champion \[music\] Lane Beley. We're the founders of Awake Academy. This podcast mixes raw life lessons, \[music\] expert wisdom, and practical tips to help you stop sleepwalking through life and start living it on your terms. You ready to wake up and thrive? Let's go. Let's go. Before we \[music\] begin, we have a quick favor to ask. If this podcast has been landing for you, please hit subscribe and leave us a rating or review. It helps us grow the show and keep bringing these conversations to more people. Welcome back, Dream Team. Today we're talking about what happens when life interrupts you with the version of yourself you've been building so you can reconnect with what actually matters. We're Lane Beley and Tess Brower and this is a wakeup call, a space where we share real conversations, lived experience and sciencebacked tools to help you be your best self and live your best life. Today's guest is the beautiful Mel Doyle. She is a shining star in both of our lives, a dear friend. But you are also one of Australia's most loved broadcasters, an author, a very successful author, mother, a mentor, a trusted voice for women navigating change, identity, and midlife. You've been awarded an AM for your contribution to media community and to our lives as well. \[laughter\] um your work across radio, television, writing, and advocacy really does create a beautiful world for women to walk in. And I know that we're going to dig a little bit deeper into what that has meant and shown up for you, but we are so grateful for what the path that you paved for all of us. Um this is a story about who you became in a pretty big moment of life, right? Mel didn't just survive reinvention, you lived it. She went inward, reflected on the stories that you've held across decades of journalism. You wrote, rebuilt, and began shaping a life that felt more honest, grounded, and more your own. What a beautiful story we're about to hear today. So, we are going to learn from you about what a life looks like from the inside, not the outside. And I think we all wear these masks of what it looks like to be the shiny thing in the room, but what does it feel like when life turns on its head? And things happen to you that you can't necessarily necessarily control. In the space of a year, Mel, you turned 50. Your son moved overseas. Your 25 career year career ended at channel 7. And it was a professional and a personal shift. What a gift it is today to have someone who comes in to show us what when your identity is shaken, how you reinvent yourself, how you hold space for us and how our beautiful listeners right now who could be going through a little bit of change, how we can learn from your story. So, welcome to a wakeup call, Mel Doyle. Thank you. It's so lovely to see you, Mel. I should have done all that when I wasn't here. Why? I don't know. That felt a little bit overwhelming, but thank you for having me. I'm I'm thrilled to be here with you both. Excellent. Well, I love that it's overwhelming because I feel like it's not often that somebody reads back their career highlights to you in such a personal way. And I feel we lane and I talk about this. Is it important to do it for the person that's in the room to anchor themselves? Because what awake academy is is like about seeing people and their heart and soul. And often a lot of people make up these assumptions when they when you read the CV, but you miss the heart. And I think that's what we love about you, Mel, is your heart. So, I'm I think you needed to be in the room to hear that today. Thank you. And the beautiful thing is is that the way that we see you is very different to the way that you see yourself. So, \[laughter\] that is why we're grateful that you've made this time and the space to be in here today within the studio with us. And also to Tessa's point, not only that you hold the space for us, that you allow others to hold the space for you, too. So, as Tess mentioned in that introduction, there's been a lot of transformation and shifts in your life. And we love to start every interview with the same question. What has been your big wakeup call? Because we believe and as we've heard, everyone goes through massive shifts and life cracks open and things change. What has been your wakeup call? Has Well, there may not have just been one, but just reflect on one right now that you'd like to share with us. It was the I think it was 2020. Um, I think I, you know, merrily chugged along in a career that I'd loved and worked really hard for and had reached a point and then everything changed in 2020 like it did for all of us. The world changed.

food. I like challenging myself. I like change. But that was a lot. And then I think it spun me off my axis a little bit more than I thought it would and in hindsight recognized. So yeah, I'd been at 7 for 25 years, which is huge to be in people's homes in a very intimate space where they're staring at you and you're they're looking for you for leadership in times of toughness as well and light. And then

I had to cover, you know, there was that that and that went, which I'm I'm so mindful that so many people experience that and it's a really difficult thing, especially then to look for another job in co when everything is locked down. So, I had that. Yeah. Nick, our eldest, left home, went to the US. Um, we farewellled him at the airport. That was it. We couldn't even, you know, follow him in. It was on a plane. I think there was seven people on his flight over to Seattle. That was pretty hard. and he then went into lockdown for a year on the other side of the world on his own. Didn't know anyone. So, you know, mom and dad at home and just, oh my god, how do we get to him if he needs us? Cuz we the borders were closed. We couldn't. That was a hard thing to do. Um, yeah, I turned 50. A lot of conversation comes with that from necessarily not necessarily yourself, but other people. Well, how do you feel about it? It's a big milestone, you know, all the questions. And did you struggle with permenopause or menopause? Um, not really. But I think when I look back there was probably a lot of symptoms that I just didn't put down to any of those to permenopause. I thought they were just all the feels that I was feeling because I was 50 because my job had ended because Nick was moving overseas. Everything that was going along with it. So I think whether they were permenopause, whether they were just life throwing a big fat pie in my face, I don't know. But there was just a lot of pie pie. \[laughter\] That's the title. Yeah. And I just remember thinking, "Oh my god, this is just coming at me from so many places." And I'm feeling crappy and the world's feeling crappy and it's throwing crap at me and Oh, enough. So, yeah. I I don't know what I can actually put down to what. Yeah. What did that feel like, Mel? Like, what does someone who has spent a lifetime in front of the camera, what did it look like behind the camera for you? Um, look, I'm pretty positive and cheery and I think I felt not that. Yeah. \[laughter\] Um, I do remember just, you know, there was all those questions you ask yourself. Is this it? Am I washed up? Is my career over? Is it all ended? It's been a great ride. My god, I wouldn't swap it for anything. I had a wonderful time, but is what am I going to do next? You know, is now my time to learn to be a barista and go and \[snorts\] quietly make coffees and pastries somewhere? you know, what do I do? How does my future look? What do I want to do? Um, I can just imagine the Daily Mail article, Mount Doyle Barista. Just imagine walking up to your local coffee shop. It takes so long I chat to everyone, \[laughter\] you know, me just like, can I just get my order? \[laughter\] Um, we got a dog at that point, which I think was a great thing. She was fantastic for I think my mental health. having a puppy to focus on the joy that a dog brings. They're very, you know, you can you slow down. You're grounded. You've got to focus on throwing a tennis ball and seeing how happy she is chasing birds. And I think that was a really really good thing for us. But yeah, it took a long time to get out of my funk. It just felt yeah, what what what am I going to do? Who am I? What is next? And that's that's a lot of questions to ask at any point, let alone Did the cost of your dog keep you in a funk? We we got quite the bargain. Although then she got really really sick like 3 days later and had to go in for emergency hospital and then Yeah. then that put us back into a \[ \_\_ \] But um price people were paying for dogs for I think we got her just she arrived they she flew down from Baliner on the Friday just before lockdown started. And we were like oh it was meant to be. But um

co but um yeah just there was that we like to say if you're feeling blue touch green like get invol like make the make the pancakes like just get get your hands busy but what happens at 3:00 a.m. You know you wake up the cortisol spikes you're in your head. What was what were you saying to yourself? I got busy because I've always been busy. I think I' I must thrive on adrenaline. Adrenaline. And I knew that if I wasn't doing something, then I would start day drinking. You know, not really, but \[laughter\] you know what I mean. Drinking. I just knew my funk would be worse. She's married to a rock star, \[snorts\] so that's that's a part of mental health plan that we we subscribe to sometimes. There's nothing wrong with a good rosé. Ros, we've done that. Um, \[laughter\] so I wrote a book. I wrote two books

get out of your trackies, sit in front of my laptop, do some work. What am I going to do? And I think that was the best thing I could have done for me. working from home, suddenly not having, you know, the adrenaline rush of live television, the deadlines of having to put a bulletin out in x number of hours, all those things that my entire career had revolved around. I had a very structured job. I had to be, you know, at an office every day at a particular time or on the road or wherever it was. Um, and I knew that if I went from, you know, 100 km an hour to zero, it would be messy. So, I I tried to keep myself busy. I do look back now with hindsight and wish I'd probably chilled a little more and enjoyed a little more time at home when my family was all there. But I think I did it for my own head as much as anything. It's amazing how we keep ourselves busy when we are in a funk as well. Like I think about when I left the pro tour after 19 years as being identified as professional athlete and feeling like I lost my sense of identity and direction and structure and all the things that you're talking about. Did you feel that sense of loss of identity?

an outside perception of who you are and the labels that are attached. you know, you'll forever be world champion surfer Lane Beley, you know, and and so I think those titles are um as much for other people, but also for yourself. There is a degree. I used to always say that my job didn't define me. But when it ended, I think I had a moment of going, "Oh \[ \_\_ \] maybe it did." Yeah. You know, I learned that really the hard way. I was always test from virgin and she can do it. She's like, "She'll get you what you want." That's like and when I lost that title and when I had lost everything, I remember thinking, who the hell am I? Yeah. Like I I didn't see myself as particularly talented in any way, shape or form. Well, we we will beg to differ on that. I know. But it's amazing like how your identity gives you talent and when like or gives you a belief in yourself. So when I lost all of that, I was like, I am no one. And I didn't go down the busy path because I could I was like physically in disabled. And that stillness was like a real reckoning. And I wonder like in hindsight for you what that stillness like you \[clears throat\] sometimes you need it to create greatness but your busyiness created greatness too. I think it just it gave me the space to have the conversation with myself about all right, what what do I want to do next? You know, I I recognize I was in a very lucky position that um you know, I'm I'm in a stable relationship and I've we've got a home and we were well and you know, I can I can tick all of those boxes. So I recognized how incredibly privileged I was, but it let me have that moment of going, what do I want to do next? Not just what do I need to do, but what do I want to do? So I had um when the world opened up, I decided the first year I would say yes to everything and I would just try new things and I would give new things a go. And I always say to myself, you know, and my kids, what's the worst that can happen? You know, give it a crack. Um, it's crazy what the world gives you when you are giving that advice. And that was really great. But then I got to a point where then I had to start saying no. And I think the last few years have really taught me the power of saying no. That's as big as the power of saying yes. You know that that you can then say, well actually that that doesn't work for me now or that doesn't fit into where I want to go or that's something I might have done 5 or 10 years ago but I don't want to do that now. So therefore, I might try something different. And and I think too by saying no to something, it frees you up to be able to say yes to something else. You know, you've got to have a seat at the table empty sit. So I think it it it was it was those conversations. It was almost like a little bit of a personal life audit of of going, okay, well, what are my skills? What can I do? What can't I do? What do I want to do? What do I not want to do? And what do I where do I go next? Did you have a coach? like how did you have that awareness to go there? I had a lovely very tearary conversation with Lane. \[laughter\] Um and I think it's fabulous having people in your life who can remind you what you can do and who you are. Tell me about the phone call. I do I think I remember um the aftermath of it more of just sitting in my car. Oddly enough, it was a phone call in the car just sobbing and going, "Oh my god, I'm going to be okay." But I don't, maybe it's me, but I don't think I was I could see my own worth at that point in time. And and I think it's very easy to forget the 30 odd years that you've put into building your career to get you to a point and how quickly you can just cut that from yourself, which is stupid and crazy, I know, but at that moment in time, yeah, there was fear attached to what do I do next? And I think having other people who can be sensible and rational say to you, "Hey, you're going to be okay. You've you've worked hard. You know, you you'll be fine." Do you remember the phone call? I I

your umbilical cord to the life that you'd lived for as long as I'd known you. And uh that's what inspired me just to pick up the phone and say, "Hey, I'm I'm with you. I I understand where you're at and I'm here just to tell you you've got this. You know, you've got everything you need. You've you know, you've got those pillars of support and what you do isn't who you are." That was essentially the premise of the conversation is that you're more than that. Um, and it and it's healthy, as Mel said, it's it's hap it's it's wonderful to have that reinforcement because it's very easy to forget that, holy \[ \_\_ \] I'm only known for this. I'm only known for being that, you know, that bright, sparky person who can tolerate sitting next to David Kosh every morning \[laughter\] and and bring the the essence and the sunshine and and the laughter and the joy, but also the seriousness and the talent and everything that you have that you built over 30 years. It's very easy just to have that just dissolve and then think, well, I'm nothing without that. And I guess that's what inspired me just to pick up the phone cuz I felt like that, too. That's what motivated me to to make that phone call. I just wanted you to realize that you're more than that. Um, and and you've obviously stepped into that aspect of yourself. And hearing it from someone you respect and admire, it just seems to carry more weight. You can you can try to say all these things to yourself. Oh, John could have said it to you 100 times. it wouldn't have mattered. But you just you said what I needed to hear at the moment in time I needed to hear it. And I think that was such a help to remind me that it's going to be okay. Yeah.

know, I let myself be sad and then there's a little bit of grief attached to it. Then there's fear because if you have all of those feelings, then when the excitement kicks in, you feel that, too. And so, I think that was really important just to feel sad and sorry for myself for a while, but not forever. Yeah. And then reach a point going, "Okay, well, put your big girl pants on. \[laughter\] Yeah. What are we going to do about it, girlfriend?" Yeah. What are we going to do about it? most powerful words you can say to yourself in the moment of grief which we've all experienced like self grief is such a different type of grief who did you have to grieve losing I think it was just more the job that I'd had and the joy that it brought me my last job at 7 was Sunday night and I loved it so much I think I grew so much as a journalist as a person I got to travel the world and do the most extraordinary stories and interview the most incredible people. And I I look back over my career and definitely hosting Sunrise and then doing Sunday night were the pinnacles, you know, and and so I think it was more the grief of damn it, that was awesome. And am I not going to do that anymore? Like what if I never have so much fun? What if I never get to experience some of those things that I experienced because I loved it so much? M um just telling the most extraordinary stories and having that access to people to things happening. So I think that's what I grieved. Yeah. What if actually paralyzes us too. It prevents us from moving forward. It keeps us stuck in the belief that it's never going to be good as that was. I remember I was dating a guy called Ken Bradshaw who wrote at the time in 1998 or 99 the biggest wave in the world and he had big wave blues. the following day cuz the thoughts were what if I don't get to ride a wave bigger than that and it's does Kirk get that with in excess? No. No. Because Kirk stood on stage for 35 years very present. And I think that's the difference the what if it's not going to be as good can be reconciled with wow that was amazing.

can do to make ourselves be happier, be healthier, be more present, be more vibrant? Otherwise, the what if becomes an anxiety place or a destination that will never occur or it may we may it may not but you just don't know. So all it's doing is increasing your anxiety and preventing you from actually connecting with the joy Yeah. of what was. And I also feel like when you're in it, you're so focused on being in it. Yeah. That I'm not one for looking back. I'm not one for reflecting. And it gave me a chance to actually sit and go, "Oh my god, wow, I achieved everything the 13-year-old wannabe journalist achieved." So also have a moment to celebrate that. also have a moment to go, \[ \_\_ \] I did it. That was awesome. I had the best ride. I I wouldn't swap anything. Oh my god, I did it, which yeah, that something might have ended, but I still did it. I got the chance to do it. And what is it going to like? It's like a born again moment for you. Like what can this birth? And I'm having this epiphany as I'm sitting here now is I've read your beautiful book that you wrote in co you and those beautiful stories that you had had interviewed and shown the world. But what I'm realizing in it is you realize that you were your own broadcast channel that you could tell your own stories that you didn't need like you it now looking back on it it's like almost you found a power in yourself that it was what you wanted to tell and show and they were stories that I yeah wanted to tell so exactly I didn't have Sunday night to do it anymore so I'll write a book. Yeah. Um which is not easy. It's not. You don't just wake up in one day and go, I'll write a book and poof, it arrives. Like, you have to do it all. You've got no IT department. You've got no research. Like, it's you. So, I'm seeing now the transition from Mel from Spotlight to you're your own broadcast channel, but also the perspective it gives you. I feel like there was a I one of the reasons I wanted to write that book was during co a lot of us were doing the WOW is me. You know, we're locked in. Life \[snorts\] is different. Yes, it was awful, don't get me wrong, and a lot of people felt it more than others. But I had this moment of thinking, I'm I'm I'm at home with my family and we're safe and we have a backyard. And I I don't know if you remember, it was like the sunniest, warmest winter ever, you know, and and how do I tell stories of people who really have gone through stuff and what can we take from them? And I think writing it was quite valuable for me as a reminder of no matter how sad and sorry I'm feeling for myself. Get a bit of perspective, girlfriend. You know, you're going okay. And I just think that was a really personal help as much as I wanted the book to be able to help somebody. And I'm not saying that anybody's hardship, you can't compare. It's not on a scale, right? But sometimes I think it is al it's healthy to go actually I'm I'm really I'm okay. Yeah. Well, if you want a healthy do dose of perspective, I I recommend every listener picking up a copy of that book. I mean, I read it during co and or when I had co and um and uh yeah, it really helped put things into perspective. It was so heartfelt and I still reflect on the wakeup call it gave me. Oh yeah. What was the wakeup call it gave you? \[sighs\] Well, it was the story of the Abdullah family. And I have had years of um like I struggle with self forgiveness for what I pushed myself to do and ignore symptoms and like I think I've definitely hold on to things longer than I should. Um, and to have forgiveness represented in such a powerful way. Um, Mel, I might throw to you. Can you just give a bit of context cuz I don't want to I don't want to don't want to butcher this story. So, um, I interviewed Danny Abdala. So, the Adala family lost three of their children in that horrific crash in Oland's couple of years ago. I can't remember the year. and their niece. And um and the next day, Leila mom came out and forgave the driver who was charged with drug and drink driving and \[snorts\] she forgave him. And I just I think like all of us is how how do you do that? How do you find that in you? And Leila has a incredibly deep faith and that was what led her to that point. And I was fascinated by Danny, her husband, because he such an interesting, incredible man. Grew up the wrong side of the tracks, got into trouble quite a lot, could have gone down a very different path, you know, involved in gangs, etc., etc., and met and married Ila. And then, you know, on the night when the the guy that did it was in the hospital, um you know, all his mates were outside, the Abdullah's friends wanting to riot the place. You know, the riot squad was called in. And Danny able to say to them all like, "Don't do this. Don't make the situation worse. Step back." And I think for someone to have that strength at that time, I can't even imagine. I can't even fathom it. So I think his story was really powerful because all the background things that that he had that made him the man that he was and as a family for them to be able to say it happened, you know, we forgive we move forward. That's Yeah. Yeah. Still floors me. It floors me because I know so many people holding on to much less and still including me like I am like I think that's why the story that I read in there resonated with resonated with me so much was anger takes power and it takes a lot of energy and that's what they said they didn't want to be angry for the rest of their lives. Yeah. I was like wow. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that was the one that hit me in the face and I've never forgotten it. And whenever I have these moments of um anger, I remember the Abdulas and I think self like forgive, you've got to forgive yourself and even I remember part of the story was that they had to forgive themselves cuz they sent the kids out to get ice cream. Yes. And that is such a sliding door moment that every parent or everyone who cares for someone will like we've all had those sliding door moments that we relate with. But the forgiveness of self that they and I think for them saying that in order to move forward they had they had to do it. It's almost like a line in the sand, isn't it? Where you need to move forward in life. And how do you do that? You have to let go. And I remember Danny saying to me that um his other children, you know, they'd already lost siblings. He didn't want them to lose their parents to the grief that the whole situation was bringing them all that they had to make a moment and go, "Okay, we forgive, we move on, let's live the rest of our lives." And and I think that is so it's one thing to be able to say it or think it. It's another thing to do it. Yeah. It's it's another thing to be able to do it in that moment. and you felt that in them. You you feel them and they feel lighter. Um there's so many people holding on to anger that feel heavy and and quite poisoned to be honest. So what did it teach you about you putting a line in the stand or you know a stake in the ground and saying like I'm going to move forward now? As a busy mom and an entrepreneur, I am constantly looking at ways I can optimize my sleep cuz when I sleep \[music\] well, I feel amazing when I wake up. Micron Nutrition has an amazing product called sleep support. It has three different \[music\] types of magnesium powder and passion flour which just help me feel a little bit more rejuvenated in the tiny bits of sleep that I do get as a mom. So visit micronutrition.com.au and use \[music\] the code awake 10 and get 10% off all of their products. Enjoy \[music\] your sleep. I've been managing menopause for years and I've constantly been looking for something to help me \[music\] create mental clarity, boost my immunity, and help me show up with more energy. So, we came up with Wake \[music\] Up. It's only got seven ingredients in it, including a bit of caffeine, but cortiseps, turkey tail, ginseng, ginko, vitamin B, vitamin D, all really natural good stuff and it's good for you. So, if you're feeling a little fatigued and need that little boost, Wake Up is your pill. You'll find it on our website awakeacademy.com.au. Um I think the book there was a few people in it who had reclaimed their own power and I think that is what I learned that there was an incredible woman I interviewed Grace who was abducted by the Lord's resistance army in Uganda at the age of 12 and held captive for nearly 5 years and escaped and and you know her story is horrific and she says I choose happiness. I choose to be happy. And I think that is what all of the people in it taught me the most is that you're you're the only one who can control how you feel about something, how you react to something, how you choose the bits that you choose to let go, the bit that the bits that you choose to hold on to. And you know, you've got the power over what you do next. So I think for me it was that moment of of you know bringing it back to career and you know that moment in time that everything changed of going okay well I'm here now what do I'm what am I going to do get on with it stop wallowing it was great it may well be great again it might just be different and and what am I going to do to be proactive to take me to that next point and I think sometimes we just have to be you know that cheerleader for ourselves but also that kick up the pants of of just come on, get on with it. Yeah. Choose happiness cuz it's an action too, isn't it? You don't just wake up and just like you can choose to wallow. Yeah. Both of us have had you got to do it, don't you? You do. Yeah, you do have to wallow. You have to honor the fact that you do feel sad. You are going to go through those stages of grief and that's completely normal. I think you know the the beauty of your story, Mel, is that you allowed yourself to feel it but you didn't stay stuck there. And that's a lot of the work that we teach through Awake Academy is that honor your emotions, feel them, but if you stay stuck in them, then you're choosing suffering and suffering is a choice. So you can choose to suffer or you can choose to take action. Enjoy the suffering for the moment, but then get on with it as you say. I mean, Tess, I think, is the the the greatest role model in choosing to get on with it, you know, and suffer. Choose to suffer. Well, you chose to suffer until once again I punched you in the face, but \[laughter\] But the beauty was that, you know, you

and they are such they are such great perspective points and anchor points. Was there one particular story that you got to share that you were just thinking, \[sighs and gasps\] "Oh, this is this is a tough one. I don't know if I could have ever all of all of them, I think, Grace." Um, and the final story in it is about a little boy who has a terminal illness. And that's where the title comes from because he says when he's going into hospital and having a treatment, he can be brave for 15 seconds. He can't be brave all the time, but he can hold on and be brave for 15 seconds. And and that's where the title came from because I thought we can all do that. You know, you can all we can all talk ourselves into it. You might have a day where you're feeling glum or in a funk or whatever, but surely there's got to be a 15-second moment in there where you can start to talk yourself out of it. And I think, you know, that led me to, okay, try new things, do new things, go learn. I I did a company director's course. I did a podcast. I'd never done one before. The whole new learning thing, you know, try go try new things and just try be brave. Try to find that little moment where you think, "Oh god, I don't know if I can do this. What's the worst that can happen?" And I think that then gives you the power and the strength to go a little bit further and go a little bit longer and recognize that, you know, you're never too old to try new things. You're never too old to learn new things. Um, unless you believe you are. Well, yeah. Yeah. So how do you have that good conversation with yourself? So the book's actually called 15 seconds of brave 10 seconds. I mean we have to learn of everyone of every age, don't we? Like and be more curious. Be more curious and open like what I almost want to get that tattooed like 15 seconds of brave like you can do it in the moment. I remember saying yes to Lane thinking there's no \[ \_\_ \] way I'm going to do this and the next minute

Yeah. and it was just small, you know, and now and then then she helped me do a life audit and then we created a business together and now we're hosting a podcast together. So, yeah, saying yes even when you don't want to. And I also believe sometimes in the power of timing, you know, I don't think you can rush it. I think it's different for everybody. Sometimes you do just need to have the stars align and this is the time and it wasn't the right time two weeks ago or two years ago. Yeah. But sometimes you just have to have evolved into that moment in time when you're ready or someone else is there ready with you and it just fits. Yeah. Yeah. the right person at the right time at the right place then all things gel together and and the right terrifying need for you to grow \[laughter\] like it can't get worse than this so what's I just have to say yes cuz you know Mel you then moved into writing a book called Age against the machine and I absolutely love that title um I feel it I I've just turned 40 but I do I'm like oh I'm now aging against the machine \[laughter\] remember we're aging from the day we're born you know Let's get real. Yeah. Let's not pretend aging is just when you're old and wrinkly. \[laughter\] \[gasps\] What did that book teach you about yourself? \[snorts\] Um, it was more it gave me a whole big chunk of answers to questions that I had when I turned 50 and everyone was asking me how I felt about it. It did make me have a moment of going, "Oh, how do I feel about it? How did you feel? Feel the same as I did at 49." Um, \[laughter\] but you realize that we put so much focus on these bookmarks along our life. You know, you turn 21, oh my god, you're 21 and you turn 50 or you turn 70 or whatever it is. And there's a lot of um perceptions from the outside world of of things that you may not have thought about yourself. So then it just, you know, as a jouro does, and I think if my word to describe myself is it's curious. So what do I do? Let's go answer these. Let's go find out how women around the world are aging, how other people feel about aging, how the world feels about aging, how, you know, our own perceptions guide us and all of those things. What are we doing right? What are we doing wrong as a society? You know, why are so many women falling through the cracks and becoming homeless and, you know, what are things that we can do and be proactive? So, I felt like it just gave me the reference guide that I wanted, which I figured I probably wasn't the only one that was asking those questions. Um, but there's also something quite powerful about asking and getting answers, about finding out, about learning, about knowing that you're not alone in experiencing things or feeling things. So, I felt like it was as much for me about being proactive and and, you know, doing the deep dive into the research um, as it was about helping anyone else that read it. Yeah. And it sounds like a lot of answers came through for you. Was there one particular answer that surprised you or um gave you just a a different perspective on knowledge that Yeah. or hope? Yeah. Purpose. The word purpose kept coming through in everything. What is your purpose in life? And and you have to sometimes get to periods of of time where you rethink it. And I think that then circled back to what I'd been experiencing career-wise. You know, you get out of bed at 21 with certain things to do and achieve and then you get out of bed at 50 with certain things to do and achieve and you've still got to get out of bed at 80 if you're lucky enough. And what are you going to do and achieve at that point in time? You know what what is your purpose in life for yourself, for the world, for the people around you? And sometimes you need to rethink that. Um, you know, we were very mindful that the that the age group we were writing about was going through similar things that I'd gone through. you know, career change, kids leaving home, you know, when your kids are little, there's a lot of you wrapped up in being a mom, and you know, that's kind of your title. Oh, hi, I'm Nick's mom. I'm Talia's mom, \[laughter\] you know. Um, and then that changes. So, who are you when you're no longer the mom of the the primary school kids that, you know, you need to wrap with the sandwiches and and all of those things. And the highest rate of divorce is 45, around 45. So like who am I without this identity of a relationship? Single mom, single dad, like it is there's so much that shifts in this age. It's really hard. And then your parents, you throw into it aging parents that we have to care for. That is a big challenge that I think I hadn't really thought about, anticipated. I know that sounds really naive, but that's become a difficult thing. There's a lot of factors that come at you. So, who are you and who you know what is your reason to get up tomorrow and and do things?

daughter. I'm a mother. I'm a partner. all of those things and they're really important and I think as you get older you recognize their value even more so. You know, my girlfriends are just my absolute rocks and have got me through every moment of my life and I they're my sisters. I couldn't do it without them. Um yeah, I I think I I think I know who I am now. I think I probably I wouldn't say I never did, but I I can now own it a little bit more. Maybe it's the beauty of turning 50. Yeah. I don't know why I'm saying it. Who am I? Oh man, I am a lover of life. I'm a lover of challenge. I'm a wife. I'm a business partner. I'm a a growth fanatic. I'm a sunshine addicted human. \[laughter\] \[gasps\] Uh there's a lot of strings to my bow, but I feel that the the one thing that really is all-encompassing for me is just a lover of life. And that was the the really thing that when I found myself in the states of depression when I had suicidality way back in the '90s the that was the thing that scared me cuz I woke up thinking of different ways to end my life every day. I'm thinking what does a lover of life have to do with suicide? Like why why is it someone that's thinking about someone that loves their life so much why are they thinking about ending it so often? Like that's not who I am. So that's to back to your point Mel. Knowing who you are is the it's the crucible. It's the catalyst for then getting out of bed. So now that you know who you are, what gets you out of bed every day. Do you know what that is other than telling stories? Oh, just damn excitement. I mean, every day is there to be seized. I want something new every day. I want to try something new. I want to go somewhere different. I want to sample something different on the menu. I want to go to another country. I I feel like I've just got this forever curiousness that's never going to ease. I I just want to keep finding out stuff, you know, appear around the corner. Um yeah, that's that's what drives me. But I I you know, I want to be a good mom and I want to be a good friend and a good daughter and a good partner and all of those things. So a good human, you know, a good human. Yeah. I think making decisions based upon that is is matters. \[clears throat\] Yeah. It's interesting like when you ask someone, well, who are you? It's like we're like, oh, who am I? And let's ask you that. Where do I go? Where do I go with that? Because often we need a label to help us anchor with who we are. Um, and sometimes you need to reflect on who you're not. And I think corporate test was who I didn't want to be. But I had viewed success is um, like you have to work all the time. we have to like identity was so wrapped up in what I did that I created a false sense of identity around that like so you've got to you know be everything to everyone and be a people pleaser and like so there was this this kind of like relentless voice on everything I needed to be not who I was when I was broken I realized that who I was was a really soft and gentle soul that just wanted to be open to the that was open to the world. So hearing like, yes, I'm a mom and yes, I'm like, you know, I have all of these things now, but as in all of them, all I want to be is a soft and gentle soul. And that is like a self softness, like a self-love. Um Lane said to me on the phone before, she's like, "Oh, you're such an empath." Yeah. You're such a deep empath. Yeah. And that truly is because I'm soft and gentle to myself now. Well, it radiates out of you. Yeah. And I think I know when I'm in congruent, when I'm choosing jobs or things or saying yes outside of soft and gentle, then I know I'm I'm not being who who I am. Then how did you say yes to me? Cuz underneath all of your tiger sharkness and your punches in the face, you're an incredibly soft and gentle human. Thank God for that. You are. Yeah, you are. And kind. You know kindness. Yeah. So that is who I would actually if you had to say to me, Tess, who are you? And I think in that intro you were like, oh, these chicks are seeing me right now. Is you're a kind and gentle soul. So maybe we all need to ask ourselves who we are and you're not allowed to say your job. You're not allowed to put your occupation in that. And you went there. You went well professionally. I'm a story. And I'm like we'll get we can't help it. Yeah. So if I ask you that question again Mel who are you without being a kind and gentle soul. You can have that. No, that's yours. I just like to think I'm kind. Yeah. I think I'm kind person. Yeah. But who are you? kind of gentle salt. \[laughter\] And I would say that like a therapy session. I know. Yeah. That's what you said the last time we had lunch. \[laughter\] That had wine. That was a great session. Definitely not soft and gentle. \[laughter\] That was day drinking. Yeah. No, you're not alone. It's only when you do it alone in like a yogic like cuz I went down that path to find who I was as well. I went down many different worlds and like a Ram Das or some like a spiritual leader was like, "Well, I am." Yeah. Well, that's what happens when you put a 2-year-old in front of the mirror. Yeah. You just I am because I am like I am all of me. All the warts and all the vulnerabilities and the openness and the curiousness and the story. Like it is actually all of you. Yeah. Yeah. Um but it's you want to be the person that you are behind the front door or in the mirror at night as you are to the rest of the world. And I feel like there's this huge gap sometimes between who you are when you look in the mirror versus who you are when you're projecting out to everyone. And my mission in life is to to close that gap. And we But I think you're allowed to change as well. Like I don't think you have to be at 25 who you will be at 55. Hopefully not. Yeah. I think you know I can't relate to my 25year-old self. Well, \[laughter\] you know how I often get asked I reckon the most asked question is always, you know, how do you manage work life balance balance is yeah totally. So I say priorities and I think in your 20s your priorities are different and as to your 30s to your 40s etc etc and I think that has also been a big focus for me of what what matters to me at this moment at this point in my life and what matters to me now is really different to what mattered and motivated me 20 years ago and probably 20 years from now will be different. So yeah, I think we've got to be also kind enough to allow ourselves to evolve and change and grow and redefine and let some things go and take on new things. And that's the beauty of Asian wisdom, isn't it? It's like when you when you like hindsight is such an incredible view, but often when you I I feel like as you get older, your ability to look hindsight, like if you're not sorting it out and learning your lessons by now, \[laughter\] then you're going to get a wakeup call. Yeah. But may you also keep learning. I hope every day I I I never want to go to bed and not learn something every day. I think that's really important to keep learning. Um, I I just wish we as a society revered and respected wisdom and experience and age a little more than we do. I think we're we're culturally programmed to see the currency of youth and beauty and, you know, perfect skin and all of those things. You know, you buy a cream and it's called anti-aging. Yeah. Well, seriously, you can't reverse aging. Yeah. So, why don't we celebrate all of the things that come with getting older and what we find out about ourselves and what we could share and how we do it. I just think we don't stop and acknowledge that enough. Elby, you're the one who's embraced aging so well, like around the stories. Like, we had this huge discussion and I don't know, like I'm sure men don't talk about it as much as what we do, is do you let

And I thought, you know what? I'm just going to let mine go gray because I already knew in my late 40s it was going that way. And I was so sick of wasting time in a hairdresser's chair \[laughter\] masking what was naturally occurring. I was like, "Screw it. I'm just going to let my hair go gray." And look, my husband didn't appreciate that one little bit because he likes to keep up images and, you know, and shop fronts and I'm like, "No, I'm just going to let it go gray." And and just embrace the aging process. Um, funny that you talk about you can't reverse the signs of aging. I went on a cruise recently and was \[laughter\] came out of a massage and thrust into this uh consultation. This I thought was a skin consultation, but it was actually a wrinkle consultation of where I can reverse those signs and make you look 40 years younger and it'll last for 3 years and then come back on the ship and we'll do it again. Quite a cruise. And I asked Yeah, quite a cruise. Yeah, exactly. And I asked this I \[laughter\] asked this woman who was giving me this consultation. I was like, "Do you use this?" And she's like, "Well, look at me. I'm almost 40." And almost 40. Yeah, that's what I said. Hey, the pressure. I'm almost 40. She does, you know, all of the injectables, the Botoxes, the fillers, the everything. Um, but look, I can still smile and look, I can still get wrinkles on my And I I deep down in my heart, I just wanted to ask, who the \[ \_\_ \] are you doing this for? Yeah, but what's driving this? But clearly, everyone has a different, you know, I don't want to go gray. My hairdresser calls them arctic blonde, right? I'm okay to keep dying my hair, but I've got crinkles. I feel like you've everyone's got their own signs of aging. Yeah. And the ones that they're okay with and the ones that they're not. You know, I still want to wear high heels. Damn it, my feet hurt sometimes and I regret it. But I still want to wear high heels when I can. That's okay. You know, and I still want to dress. I don't want to start dressing like a, you know, to comfortable old lady clothes. I don't know, whatever. But I just think there's certain things that we've all got as our own little I'm going to hang on to this, damn it. and others that I'm going to let go. And as long as you're empowered in that and you do it for you, like it isn't necessary. Well, I'm hanging on to looking good in a bikini that is my intrinsic exttrinsic motivation to drive the intr intrinsic behaviors and beliefs that maintain the consistency to ensure that I do look like that. And you're fit and you're healthy. Whereas I'm I'm sure there's other people that go, "Oh, to hell with it. I can't be bothered. I won't too hard." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but maybe they're putting things in their face, you know? So, it's kind of like what's your Yeah. What's your comfort? Well, maybe \[laughter\] I would say it's like what's your empowerment? Not doing it because everyone else is doing it, but doing it because it empowers you to show up as a better version of yourself. I know like I grew up with Victoria's Secret models being the pinup girls. Um, but as I'm getting older, I'm with you, Mel. I want to see more women standing on the stage sharing their wisdom and like Jane Fonda just came out and just seeing these women stand up and say like this is who I am forget like okay look great but also care about the world care about where we're going like as long as there's a message underneath that has a lot more depth and meaning how you look is such a tiny little portion of the pie you know it's it's part of it well yeah for some I'm sure it's bigger and others less. But it's also, you know, most of the criticism I ever got on air over the years was from other women going, "Why have you got your hair like that? Why are you wearing that? Oh, she's looking all blah blah blah." Like, "Why do we do that to each other?" I know. And I think about you. You do you. I think about you do these you're on TV or you're presenting or you're like on this podcast and someone's like, "Oh, what um what are you wearing?" I'm like, "I want the convers." Yeah. I want the conversation to be like, "How did you pick yourself up off the floor this morning when you got a text message as you're walking in here and your son's crying at daycare?" Or, "You've got food poisoning and your dad's not very well." Like, "How did you get dressed?" Like, it's only covering the Lint Cafe Siege. And I wore a black dress on air because, you know, it was appropriate. And I had someone write in and ask where my dress was from. And that was one of those moments where I went, "Are you for real? Oh my god." Yeah, like I'm covering the most frightening siege ever to hit our city and you're wanting to know where my dress was from. But you did look good. So, \[laughter\] but it's those moments where you just go, where did we go? Really, that's your takeaway from now. I know. And so yeah, particer and it's not cheap to get your hair done these days. But we will blow $4 to $500 if you live in Sydney to get your hair done, but can I convince you to go to therapy that's going to give you No. Like that's a really good point. How do we shift that level of investment and curiosity into looking great into actually doing something that's going to help you feel longterm like inner peace, forgiveness, empowerment, empowerment, joy, joy. And that is like the basis of this podcast and the work that we do is helping people have those tools to help themselves. So Mel, we have had a conversation that's gone twists and turns. I've thrown out the notes. What has been We're coming into closing now and we can't finish this without asking about Oprah. \[laughter\] So, we'll go there and then we'll finish with the door tool kit. Yeah. Um, what did you learn from Oprah? And please don't say what she wore. No. \[laughter\] Well, I had a front row seat on stage watching the best of the best do her thing. you know, she and I I'm so glad that I came away from that as in love with her as I was going into it because she is extraordinary. She is gentle and kind and genuine and nice to people and she does it because she wants to. And and if I if I'd come away feeling any of that was an act, I would have been absolutely devastated. I know. Isn't it crazy when you meet the person and then meet your heroes? Never meet her. Yeah. And I think back, you know, grew up watching her show and the topics that she tackled and the way she did them. She was just so real and so human. And that is her, you know, she she walks the talk. Um, before our first show in Sydney, which was the big one, the very first one, I was so I'm \[ \_\_ \] myself. I was so nervous and I'm pacing and I'm thinking, I just want to find a plant and vomit in it. I'm so nervous, \[laughter\] you know? I 15 seconds. 15 seconds. I was more nervous. Not so much to walk out on stage and do the thing, but I didn't want to disappoint her. All I thought was imagine if she went, "Oh god, is that all is that as good as you, you know, I just didn't want to let her down." Anyway, we're about to go on stage and she came over and she just held my hands and she said, "You've got this. I trust you. We chose you. You've got this. Let's go have fun." And I was like, "Wow." And and then it was great and I loved it. And I just thought to have that sense of self for her to recognize that, you know, she's the one that's about to take the stage in front of all of these adoring fans, but to recognize that a host was having a little bit of a panic attack. Oh, I feel that all the all the time with her. So, hold her hand. No, she needs to hold my hand. I'm the one that has the attack. Um, but no, it was lovely and I learned so much just watching the master at work. You know, she just knows how to hold a room, how to speak, how to tell stories. What did you learn about yourself? Oh, that I could do it. \[laughter\] Um, I think it was just more that I don't know, you know, sometimes you just need a little reminder that you can do stuff. Um, I I I will be really honest to say that I think that was very the fact that I, you know, she she chose me to do it was such a lovely self asssurance that, you know, we all want to hear that occasionally, don't we? We all want to hear someone tell us that we all need validation. can do what you hope you think you can do. You know, you've got you got this. So that Oh, Mel, you're so humble. Like, you're one of the most like But I never want to see myself. I never want to look at myself as anything other than just normal old me who's trying her best every single day and hopefully doing a good job. And to have somebody tell you that you're okay, you're doing a good job is just a really nice thing. Whoever it might be, whether it's Lane or Oprah. \[laughter\] All right. Well, I sit in the same bucket as Oprah. Fantastic. It's so funny cuz I um we had this moment I at a long lunch and I was talking about Lane around who she is now cuz it's it's a transition of identity, I guess, from seven world seven time world champion to champion of mental wellness to now a business entrepreneur and a chairwoman. Like there's so many things that she's reinvented herself with. And I was talking about her owning her credentials now, like you're not just a surfer and she's like, I when I and a lot of people, we go out a lot and a lot of people just line up for photos and I just want to they don't line up. They just walk up and take a selfie because people don't wait these days, do they? No. And she said, I just I don't get what all the fuss is about. Like so humble, right? And I just see myself as Barl with the margarita. \[laughter\] Great. But isn't that what that's what makes you you? That's why we love you. Otherwise, you'd have a big fat head and you wouldn't fit in the studio. Like that's what's endearing and that's what and I I'm sorry for one second, but I look at your journey now and I feel like it's so natural. Every step you've taken from the outside, I look at you and go, "Well, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that totally makes sense. It just looks so organic is where I feel like you're where you're meant to be." Yeah. And all the things you've done along the way have got you to that moment. and same what you've been through and what you share with us is so honest and so raw and so vulnerable and all of those factors and the steps you've both taken to get you to this point is where you meant to be. You know, it's all about timing. The universe has gone, okay, 2026 girls together. \[laughter\] And I think that's what I see you see in yourself is like I'm just barrel with a margarita interviewing Oprah. \[laughter\] I could have done with a marker. Yeah, I bet. So, Mel, we I wanted to bring you one after the show. \[laughter\] Mel, we end every episode with a do it for life toolkit. And it's brought to everyone today by AIA, our partner, because we're trying to help people live longer, better lives. You have gone through everything that I I would say is like people struggle with, hey, I'm never going to go through the trauma that you two go through, so I can't relate. We're like, well, you don't have to go through trauma to experience pain or suffering or a well-being reinvention. So, you've brought a level of um realness to us today that is hard for us to describe to people is like you can reinvent yourself at any age. It doesn't have to be a big life change. So, for the person listening at home who is going through change and there's a lot of that at the moment. Um there's a lot of redundancies that there's a lot of words about AI and people have lost their sense of self. If you could give your toolkit to someone right now, who is you in the car calling Lane Beachley or Oprah or Oprah? \[laughter\] What would you say to that person? What would have been your toolkit? Now,

for me it really is. Every time I left Sunrise, I had to move into Sunday night. I learned a whole new skill set and it was awesome. And then I leave seven and I have to do a whole rejig of who am I and what am I doing professionally and it's been awesome. And different doesn't have to be I think we look at different as negative sometimes. You know different different is different. It's not bad. It may not be better or it may not be worse. It's different. So what do you want to do? If you've always harbored dreams to knit, then knit like find what it is that you think will make you happy and fulfilled. I don't want to be a 100 cuz I'm going to hit 100. I don't want to hit, you know, be on my 99th birthday and look back and go, "Oh, damn it. I really should have done something different or taken advantage of another opportunity or tried something or or or you know, go and do those things cuz I think time really is precious and short and before you know it, you blink and you're, you know, 56." Um, so get on with it. Yeah. You know, try it. What's the worst that can happen? I always say to myself, what's what's the worst? If I fall on my face, then so be it. I follow my face and all. Been there before. Yeah. \[laughter\] Pick ourselves up. Took Yeah. Stood back up. Kept going. Yeah. Yeah. And And then from that stuff is what you learn about yourself, what you can do, what you want to do, what you don't want to do. Um Yeah. I think I think it's just a really it's a really lovely chance to say what do I want to leave the world knowing about me or having me done? what you know I want to say what's kind of legacy because that sounds so deep and you know hey we're all for it I think it's important what is like what'sacy what do you want to be known for having done and it's not always just your job no as we've learned today \[laughter\] Mel it's been wonderful having this conversation with you thank you for joining us in the studio I feel that the one main thing that I've taken from this conversation is that your ravenous appetite for growth and learning is infectious and I love that you're continuously being a student of life. And I think that reinforces the message around that you can you can reimagine life at any age, at any stage, no matter what season you're sailing through. So, thank you for being that beacon of of light and positivity and sunshine, and for reinforcing the messages that we sometimes know but forget. Um, it's been a real edifying conversation, and we've loved sharing this time with you. So, thank you. Thanks for having me. Mel, I just have to say what a gift you are to all of us women. I meant that at the start. It is not easy being a public figure. I see it every day with Lane. I can't relate to it in the same way that both of you have the weight of Australia like two golden girls. \[laughter\] At times like it's hard. I see that that pain in you to reinvent while the world is watching. And that's another level. But I also feel like for you it's like reinvent while your kids are watching and what a gift you are to them and to us to show that you dust yourself off, you get up and you keep changing and that is the only thing you can control. So choose happiness and choose growth are the two things that I have taken from today and that that's my legacy. I want to show my kids that is like you can do it. So thank you Mel. Thanks, Mar. If you'd like to hear more, please come and see us at Awake Academy. We have a whole program of change right at any age. A book, an online course, a collective, it's all there for you. \[laughter\] Um, but we will see you next week for more stories and more learning. And if this resonated with you or you've got someone going through change, please don't do it alone and don't let them do it alone. And so call them or make the call or share this podcast with someone who you think really needs the help and the support around them right now. And that could also just be yourself. And we'll see you next week on a wakeup call. Toodles. Have you \[music\] been listening to this episode and thought, "Mike drop. Maybe I'm ready to get coached or have some therapy, but you don't want to go all the way down and get a therapist." Welcome to the Awake \[music\] Collective where we do monthly coaching to help people feel accountable, supported, and they keep on doing the work that you hear in this podcast. It \[music\] is life transformative. Right, LB? It's a community of support and like-minded people who are willing to keep investing in themselves because what we do is we help people help themselves. If you've enjoyed what you've heard today, \[music\] then the Awake Collective is for you. So, come and join us at awakeacademy.com.au AU and join us for monthly \[music\] coaching, a community that supports you and tools that you can use in your life to thrive. Let's go. See you there. Before we close, we just want to gently remind you that Awake Academy is not a licensed mental health service. And this podcast is not a substitute for personalized mental health advice, assessment, diagnosis, or treatment. What we share here is general in nature and is designed to offer reflection, insight, and practical tools for everyday life. Therapy can be life-changing, and we deeply encourage you to speak to your GP about your mental health and wellbeing options. If this conversation brought something up for you, please do not sit with it alone. Reach out to someone you trust. Speak to your GP. And if you need immediate support in Australia, Lifeline is available 24 hours a day on 13 114. You are not alone.