Fine on Paper, Running Low

Today is for the woman and the man supporting the woman who is getting everything done but doesn't quite feel like themselves.

Does that ring a bell? 100%. Nat is a Chinese medicine practitioner, acupuncturist,

author, speaker, educator, founder of Pagoda Tree, author of Fertilize Yourself, Well and Good, and Beautiful You, and the host of the Wellness Collective.

You are a superwoman. - Wow, you make me sound like I'm doing a lot of things. Well, you're helping a lot of people.

How does that sound? Yes, but it's, you know, it's just an evolution. It is. - You don't wake up one day

and have all of those things. - All of those things, yeah. For more than 20 years, she's treated and worked with thousands of women across fertility periods,

hormones, stress, and perimenopause and menopause. So I'm the peri, you're the menopause. Oh yes. - In this duo.

It's great fun, isn't it? After treating thousands of women, Nat noticed patterns that show up again and again, women overriding exhaustion,

normalizing pain, pushing through changes they don't quite understand, and looking for more discipline when their body may actually be asking

for something a bit different. I wish I found you 10 years ago. Today is about noticing those patterns,

how to protect your energy, understand the signals, and work with your body instead of constantly fighting it. Nat, welcome to A Wake Up Call.

Thank you so much, I'm really excited about this. I say that all the time, but when I looked through the brief, I was like, oh, this is actually

gonna be so fun. - Yeah.

'cause I know that this is gonna be incredibly informative. So what is the one conversation women need to stop avoiding? Oh, I think just that inner voice, that intuition.

Like, it's never wrong. And you know when you've made that decision, and it's scary but right, you absolutely know

when you make that decision, it's scary wrong. And so it's at that point, of course, correcting. Like, don't keep doing something.

But the minute you make that choice, and then you're like, oh, that doesn't feel right, trust it, we're not good at that.

For some reason, we've lost it. But I really think it's the most important thing. Your body's never wrong, your path is different

to everybody else's, and the sooner we can get you on that, call it the slipstream, the easier it gets. Like it, I love that.

Okay, a woman says, "I'm exhausted and overwhelmed, "and I don't know where to start." What are her first three steps?

(laughing) So I think the challenge is that we try and do everything. There's so many things available to us.

We open up our phone, we look online. It's like, I should be fasting. No, I shouldn't be fasting.

Oh my goodness, am I getting enough sleep? Maybe I'm not, I need to. It's relentless.

And it's conflicting. And it's conflicting. And so what I really try and get women to do

is figure out what they need at this point in time. What's the loudest signal? What's the loudest symptoms?

And it could be, often we're doing the wrong things at the wrong time. So I see women and they give me all of the symptoms.

And the thing is, the symptoms can present the same, right? You can have night sweats, but it might not actually be a result of your hormones.

It is a result of your hormones being imbalanced, but it's because you have been not sleeping enough and not eating enough. - And the chronic stress.

And the stress is the thing I fix the most. So it's identifying where you are right now and what's the one thing that's actually gonna be the lever

that moves you to the next stage. Not doing everything all at once. And I know for the woman listening, but what is that?

And I think it's potentially asking yourself a series of questions to try and figure out what's the first step.

is what is the one question to ask before assuming it's just hormones? The basics, are you sleeping enough?

Food actually, I would start rewind. Let's start with food because most women are undernourished. They're not eating enough.

It doesn't allow for their nervous system to feel safe. And I know from patients, if they need to recover from something, so let's say,

let's use COVID as an example, which is an awful example, but let's just say. So women being unwell and it having a long-term impact

on their hormones, the first thing I got them to do was to start to eat regularly again, which is not revolutionary.

Nothing that I'm gonna say is gonna be, I don't think, mind blowing. It's reminders.

But if your body doesn't feel safe and your nervous system doesn't feel safe, one of the quickest things you can do

is start to eat regular meals at regular times and similar foods. Your body likes to know what's coming next.

So you're creating safety by doing that. So I would start with food. And then the second thing I would say is sleep.

And they're the two things that I don't know how we decided we didn't need those things anymore, but we did.

Seems to be a pretty consistent pattern to every specialist and author and trainer and athlete. Well, practitioner.

And it's not revolutionary. They all have the same and the same modalities. Sleep, feed, drink, that's about it.

Party. - Party. So that's the other one is fun. Fun.

And I have to sit with patients all the time and say, where are you having fun? When's the last time you had fun?

What do you do for fun? That's a big one. Yeah.

Most women my age can't answer that anymore. Yeah, we don't know how to answer that anymore, do we? Right.

Can I ask one more question? You can. Okay, in the rapid fire list is,

what's one symptom women should stop normalizing and get properly assessed? Oh.

Heavy bleeding, if they're still menstruating, right? It's often very easily fixed and it's usually not treated in the right way.

But I think it's important because it has a cascade effect. If you're bleeding heavily, your iron becomes low. If your iron becomes low, often the thyroid's off.

Like there's a cascade of events and it's really not that difficult to treat. And it's usually because there's either

proportionately too much estrogen in the body, which is normal. It's a normal progression,

but we wanna keep recalibrating hormones. It's not about necessarily, you're gonna get two schools of thought here.

It's not always about supplementing hormones. It's sometimes about recalibrating them. And I think that's the thing that's missing

from the conversation. And it happens from having a diverse gut bacterial flora. It happens also when your liver is detoxifying properly.

And it happens when you're moving your bowels every day. And those three things are the mechanism for regulating estrogen.

So the heavy bleeding, I think we've accepted it's very common to bleed heavily in our sort of later menstrual years,

but it shouldn't be that way. It actually should technically be eventually less. Yes.

So fascinating, isn't it?

but that's not necessarily a normal range. The normal, the ranges exist. I could go on about ranges forever

if we're talking about blood testing, especially. The reference ranges are made by the pathology lab, first and foremost, you need to know that.

So that's why they vary. So if someone's getting a blood test, the best thing I can say, or any testing,

same time of the day, same pathology lab, because they're gonna vary from lab to lab. Then you've got to look at what happens

at that point in time is they'll take a blood collection, a sample, and then they, being the pathologist, will then create a report for your doctor to then look at.

And it's very much you're fine or you're not fine. That's just, no one's interpreting anything. No one's looking and going, oh, wow, actually,

your estrogen's off the charts and your progesterone's in the toilet. It's just going, oh, well, estrogen's in within range.

It's the top of the range, within range. Progesterone also in range, but it's in the bottom of the range.

That's not healthy, and that's not what's interpreted on a report. It's just someone needs to be able to fill in the gaps,

and it's often not what a lot of doctors are taught. It's not their fault. It's just not the way it's been.

So I find that that's a really big thing with patients where I sit in there and I show them that the ranges really are a guide,

but you wanna be optimal within a range. Yeah, optimal within your age group, within a range. And proportionate to your other markers as well.

It's a puzzle. It's a big puzzle. And I haven't mastered the whole of it,

but I definitely know how to look at the key parts for women's health, especially. Patients will come all the time and say,

why won't my doctor test this for me? And it's like, well, if they don't know what to do next, if you came to me and you said, Nat,

I want you to test all my cancer markers, I'd be like, I'm not your doctor for that. I don't know what to do with that.

I can do it for you, but then what? I can't help you. And I think also the nature of a physician

is they wanna help, right? So (laughs) Well, I was just kinda going--

I think they just, majority do, but I work with a particular practitioner who's not a GP, but is really good

at doing what you're doing, is dissecting all of the information and measuring it according to my lifespan

and my current-- - Biomarkers. Yeah, everything over a period of time. And she requests pretty comprehensive panels and things,

which my GP doesn't think is necessary. It's a really good, when I say, I think they wanna help with the tools that they've got.

Yeah, right, okay. So they don't know what to read, yeah, okay. Right?

They don't know how to read it. Why would they request it? That's right.

And so I do think they are, by nature, they do wanna help, but also they get frustrated because maybe it's not their wheelhouse

or maybe they don't have a tool for it. And I would say that the majority of the things that we're talking about,

it's not, the solution isn't always a medicine. Yes, right. Most of the time it's not.

But their solutions are medicine. Right. So there's this big gap,

and women are walking out of their health provider feeling worse than they went in because they've got no answers.

They know they don't feel like themselves, but they've been told they're fine. Yeah, 'cause they're on the normal range.

Correct. So there's a lot of discrepancies and a lot of gaps with this,

and I very much, yes, try and fill the gaps. But I think we're looking in the wrong places for the answers that we're seeking,

and that's what's causing women to feel like they are, like they're not being heard. Yeah, out on an island.

Yeah.

Like, you've got this sense of confidence that Laine and I just drop into straight away, and we've only met you for the last couple of minutes.

Where does that come from? Where does that knowledge and that quest to understand it all?

Like, there's a wake-up call in there. Can you help us understand where you get this drive to help others?

Many years ago, I've had my clinic for over 20 years, and really early on, when you're a new practitioner, you just treat anything and everything.

And I remember saying to, I had a business partner at the time, and I remember saying,

"Oh, I never wanna treat women's health." Could you imagine? Why'd you say that?

Because every, whoa, hormonal women is not a fun time. Like, why would I sign up for that? And I also didn't know. - So you're a divorce lawyer.

Yeah. - Yeah. But I also, I was in my mid-20s. What did I even know, right?

Nothing. - Like, nothing. So this is where I made this very profound statement, and then fast-forward several years later,

and all I saw were women seeking answers. Careful what you ask for. I know, right?

Careful what you wish for. So in amongst all of that, what I was seeing patients coming in for,

and it was very much fertility at this point in time. Like, I really made my name known in the industry through what we did with women's fertility.

And so women were saying, "Well, why am I having these symptoms?" And I'm like, "I don't know.

"I never got taught any of this." I'd studied at this point in time. I'd finished, or it was midway through my final degree.

So it was like, and that was my third, sorry, I should say. So it wasn't like I was fresh, fresh. Like, I'd done enough subjects.

I'd done enough learning and still didn't have answers for these women. So I decided, I used to say to patients,

"I don't know. "We're gonna find out together. "Can I practice learning on you?"

And they would say, "Absolutely." And so I basically, I just kept digging and asking and digging and asking and digging and asking,

and I concluded that the majority of the symptoms that we were seeing when it came to fertility or infertility were lifestyle-related.

They were a result of our modern living. And so I guess from asking a lot of questions and realizing that the answers weren't necessarily

in front of us, realizing that I wasn't taught that, that's where I guess I kept asking and I got more confident in knowing that we don't know everything,

or as it seems in a medical world, we definitely don't know everything. And what I've now can very much in hindsight look back

after over 20 years in alternative medicine is very often someone will be labeled wackadoo for having this idea that 10 years later

is just a known thing. And I don't know how many times we're gonna keep doing that.

The answers are there. - We've been doing it for millennia. - We have, right? So this is where now I kind of take that step back

and I really don't think anyone's crazy in the ideas that they come up with. And I very much lean into when I hear a new idea

or a new theory or a new conspiracy, I'm all in because I've seen it over and over again actually become something that we should pay attention to.

Yeah, I learned this, I grew up with, my mom started Avalon's Organics. I had homeopathics when I was brought up,

but when you were sick and you needed it, medicine can save your life. And I experienced that with my own recovery,

like medicine saved my life. Like the operations and the treatment that I needed, but the healing came when I embraced all other modalities.

And that was like a soul healing versus a medical healing. You've experienced something quite similar in your life too, right?

That has led you down this sort of combination of medicine meets therapy.

he's 14 and taller than me, but he was diagnosed with cystic fibrosis while it's pretty much at birth.

It's what they give you the heel prick test for that you don't really know what they're doing when you have a baby and you're like,

oh, you're gonna prick their heel, sure, do that. Like, I don't know, what are you testing for? And so what happens is that obviously comes back positive

and then they need to take you through another series of tests to figure out. Do they tell you straight away?

They, you get a phone call at around four weeks after that heel prick test, which is done, you know, third day in hospital

or second day in hospital, or just before you go home. 'Cause actually with Olivia, I wasn't even in there long enough for that.

So anyway, that phone call came, I was no stranger to cystic fibrosis. My best friend's son also has cystic fibrosis,

which is so weird to me because at that time there were 3000 people in Australia living with cystic fibrosis.

So to me, that was actually harder to get my head around than my son being diagnosed. But anyway, when you get a diagnosis like that,

you're very quickly thrown into a medical world and you're very quickly, I guess, they prepare you for the worst.

It's the worst outcome. It's that your life is gonna change, that you can't go far from a hospital.

He probably won't run up and down the hallway without feeling unwell. Like it's just, there's nothing in that

that's positive at all. And so me being me, an alternative medicine practitioner, completely out of my comfort zone in that environment,

you're scared. So you're going through every decision that you make based on how you're feeling as a mother.

And also it's different when you can make a decision for yourself. When you're making a decision for a child,

it's a completely different scenario. Anyway, long story short, you go through what I, I don't even know if this happens anymore,

but I call it CF bootcamp. So for five days, you're in this intensive and they're teaching you everything you need to know.

And can I tell you, at one point in time, we're sitting with a dietician. She says, "These kids fail to thrive.

"If you can only feed them McDonald's, that's fine. "You just need to feed them." What? - And I remember going,

glaze over, I can't anymore with this. And so this is-- - Assisting fibrosis is a lung condition.

It's actually, yes, it's many things, but the lungs essentially become damaged over time with scarring, phlegm can build up.

You can grow bacteria that's very damaging. The pancreas doesn't usually, some instances it does, but it becomes insufficient

because the mucus builds up in the body and just basically plugs everything up. And so anyway, we're sitting at this,

this is the third day of bootcamp, by the way. So we've already had two and a half days of this intense, just how bad life was gonna be basically.

Your life's shit. Yeah, basically it's over, but just do your best sort of thing.

But your daughter's thriving, so one out of two ain't bad, you're doing all right. I know, so anyway, I remember at that point,

I actually just said, "You need to stop talking." And my husband's like, "I can't do this anymore today. "Can we stop?

"We'll come back tomorrow." 'Cause I was like, "I just need to collect myself. "This is too much."

And every part of my being was, I was actually having a physical response to an emotional feeling, right?

Right, so anyway, we went back the next day, that was fine. The final day was the day where we got the medications and all the things, and we met with the pediatrician.

And again, no disrespect, they're doing the best they can with what they've got, right? But I remember driving to the hospital on that final day.

And if I can say, how I felt up until that point in time was like being in a dark hole, like a pit. And it was just, it was dark.

If I gave it a color, it was black. You know, it was really heavy. And I remember driving to the hospital.

I turned to my husband and I said, "What if it was okay?" And he looked at me and he's like, "What?" And I said, "But what if it was?"

And he's like, "You're insane." Like, you've not just watched everything that we've had to listen to and learn

for the last five days. I'm like, "I don't buy it. "What if it's fine?

"What if we can make this more than fine? "What happens if he can thrive?" And it was, I explained it as a glimmer of hope.

There was just that glimmer that I was like, "Do you know what? "Maybe it could be."

And we went into that appointment and we sat down and at the time the treatment for a baby was two years of preventative antibiotics.

Oh, as a baby. - For a baby, right? Every part of me was like, "I can't." And so I sat with the pediatrician

and I listened to what he had to say and I said, "I can't do that." And he said, "What do you mean?"

And I said, "I can't do what you're asking me to do. "There's not one part of me that is, "there's no yes here and therefore it's a no."

And so I said to him-- Did your husband back you? Yes, he did.

I said, "What else can we do?" I said, "One of two things is gonna happen. "I'm gonna be really honest with you.

"Either we do this together or I'm just gonna lie to you "and tell you that I've done what you've asked me to do "and I'm not gonna do it.

"So which one is it gonna be? "Because I actually can't." And it was that mother like,

I don't even know where that came from, right? I'm not, I'm very much able to, I'm easy go lucky, I'll find a way

to massage something through. I'm not, well, I can be a bit feisty, but I try not to be.

No, no. I try not to be disrespectful 'cause it doesn't get you anywhere in these situations, right?

Not when you're dealing with experts. Correct, who have your best interest. Correct, correct.

But you also understand literature and research and you've studied. Like you understand that there's so many things.

And I said, "We need to put our egos aside here "and we need to just do what's right for my child." So anyway, I said, "Can I have time without the antibiotics?

"Can I refuse the medication to begin with?" And he said, "You can." And I said, "Okay, what does that look like?"

He said, "You've got six months "and if he gets sick in those six months, "then you have to do what I say.

"But if he's fine, then I'm happy to continue." That's great, great. - Six months, that's a win? Every day that I didn't have to give that child antibiotics

was a win, every single day that I didn't have to. And so we went on this journey and we won't go into it, but I don't tell this story

because I think we've got it all figured out or we have all the answers. But I tell this story because I wanna motivate people

to advocate for themselves, to find that glimmer of hope. Because if you can find that, all I kept doing was every day I'd find the next thing

that he'd done that was amazing. The next thing, the next thing, and the hard part is too, you're a human at the end of the day.

You're gonna get sick. You're gonna have days where you're not amazing. How do you figure out if that's CF or just being a child?

It's the same as being a grown woman. How do you figure out if it's perimenopause or just being a grown woman?

Yeah, who's tired. - Correct, right? So I just, it was like a ball. I just kept growing.

When you put a rubber band, a rubber band, a rubber band, that's what it was like with Geordie to the point where Geordie's never had antibiotics

in his 14 years. He's never been hospitalized. I lied once about antibiotics,

which was not in my favor once. And I learned the lesson because they're like, "Look, he's doing amazing."

And you did what we said and I was like, "I didn't do it." I learned the lesson and I told them later on because I don't like doing it that way either.

But I think the main things is you get a team together that are on your side that can hear you. They don't necessarily have to agree with you,

but also you know within yourself what might be, what might feel like the next best step that's scary right or scary wrong.

And I think that comes back to what we spoke about at the start. It's really trusting that intuition and growing that side

that's not looking for evidence of illness every five minutes, 'cause you'll find it in anyone, any one of us.

I could find symptoms in myself that look like cystic fibrosis. So, you know, it's really important I think for me

and I tell this story to patients often because at the time of a diagnosis things feel pretty scary and pretty grim.

And you can see why parents just go with what the practitioners are advising them to do because it's in the best interest of the child

based on the data points that they have from over the years. Here's your worst case scenario and if you follow this, this is the best case scenario.

So you're not taking the individual into account. So can I tell you fast forward 10 years, maybe 12, they turned around,

they took the prophylactic antibiotic recommendation off the schedule of treating CF children. And so at one point I remember going into the pediatrician

and going, "So, saw you changed the treatment plan?" And they're like, "Yes." And I'm like, "Hmm, interesting."

I mean, how can antibiotics, when a child is actually growing their immune system, that's where your immune system comes,

80% of your immune system is in your gut and you're bombing it every day with antibiotics. Like there's no way that made any sense to me at all,

just logically speaking. You don't have to be necessarily a health professional to figure that out.

Yeah, exactly, an expert to figure that out. It's wonderful 'cause I feel like it has ignited in you the ability to question, advocate, listen to your gut,

and what a gift that is. Absolutely. And for so many reasons. - 'Cause we see so many women,

so many women who don't know where to start, who have all of the information, but they're not listening to themselves.

Yeah. We have a quick favor to ask. If this podcast has been landing for you,

please hit subscribe and leave us a rating or review. It helps us grow the show and keep bringing these conversations to more people.

It's so important, that's what I'm saying. But the hard part is also, if you are in complete disarray

and you don't know where to start, trusting your gut can be the hardest thing ever, right? Because also it's not just an emotional thing.

If you've got gut dysbiosis, you find it hard to make decisions as well. It's like your emotion center.

So this is why we're starting with the easiest thing can be, like I said, the food at the beginning. Just starting with something that's easy

and not overwhelming and not everything all at once. But if you're not eating, start there.

Yes, you did. What did you think? Okay, so two standout things.

So Tess, I think from what I could see, and I know that we've got other blood tests waiting for you, which I'm really upset about,

but we can talk about that after. The only thing that I could see from the tests that you had, which didn't include your hormones, was your iron.

And if you are low in energy and you don't have enough iron, then you're never ever gonna feel amazing. And this is a really common pattern with menstruating women.

And also for the mum that's listening, it's really common for a teenager to become iron deficient when they first start menstruating

'cause they haven't menstruated before. And then all of a sudden, so I wanna put that one on the record as well,

just because I think it's super important to understand each phase has its challenges. But for me, that was all that stood out on yours.

You know what's fascinating? It's the level of iron that if I went to a GP, they'd say you're fine.

I know. What are your views on iron infusions? I always wanna get to the reason

why someone's iron deficient. And over time- - I don't eat red meat. Right. - That doesn't matter.

But that doesn't matter. There's other ways that you can make it up. But here's what I would say.

There's two main reasons that someone's gonna be iron deficient. They're either losing it or they're not absorbing it.

If they're having a heavy period each month, then I start there. If you're not having a heavy period,

then I would start with absorption and how can we maximise that? Is there something else that we need to look at there

in terms of your gut health and how things are operating? It's not just red meat. There's many ways that you can get iron.

How do you absorb it? Is it through the gut? Yes.

So you mean, yeah, essentially food is medicine, right? If we're not eating enough iron and we're not absorbing that, then absolutely, yes.

So start, I mean, we complicate things. We do. - We really do. Do you have a recommendation for a supplement?

Oh, try and, so yes, I do. But again, you might not like the answer because it's beef and spleen liver.

I find that moves the needle really well. The other I really love with patients at the moment is the bioheme 'cause it has everything in it

that kind of is all rounded. So that's a good start for me. What about LB?

Oh, yes, so. Good memory. Good memory, I'm remembering that I,

there's absolutely nothing wrong with your thyroid, but the TSH was up there. So you know how we talked about reference ranges before?

TSH, and we've only got TSH. Oh no, actually, there might have been T4 in there. Yes, right.

But let's talk about TSH 'cause it's the most common one that is absolutely wrong for women. The reference ranges for TSH, depending on the path lab,

sit somewhere between 0.5 to five, sometimes 0.5 to four. Okay, still a broad range, isn't it? Very broad.

And what we say is that was not necessarily created from a well section of the population. You're not always testing thyroid if you're feeling well.

Yeah. So the reference ranges were changed. In 2003, they should be between 0.4 and four.

Okay. Functional range is 0.5 to three. Okay, so the lower the better.

You're 2.9. Ooh. Top end of the functional range is three.

I do like to be at the top end. Yes, well, you don't wanna be in this end. You wanna come down a little bit.

I say to patients, TSH sitting somewhere around one, you generally feel your best. Okay.

Everyone's different, so don't run out there and try and get your TSH to be one. But if it is anywhere upwards, sort of two and a half,

I start to work on, all right, how can I get that thyroid to be happier? There's usually one of two reasons

that the thyroid's not happy. High stress, or there could be a thyroid illness. Now, I'm not saying that's what's happening here,

'cause the majority of patients, it's not a thyroid illness. It's actually, they're just stress-related, which then can be managed, and it can be--

Well, only because I've been wearing this thing. Is it telling you you're stressed? It's telling me I'm stressed all the time,

and I am a silent stressor. Ashwagandha. Oh, okay.

Give it a try. So for patients wearing an Oura ring, anyone that ever comes in with a high stress reading.

I burn a shit ton of calories doing nothing. Yes, wow. (laughing)

Try some ashwagandha. Try some, it just took for three weeks on, and then take a week off and just see what it does.

But just try it, I found it's gone. Taken PY1 patient, she's in a stress zone nine hours of the day, I'm like, "Babe, that?"

It's supposed to be like 45 minutes to maybe two hours tops. Nine, she's a lawyer, but nine hours every day, no. And that's all we did, we all did that.

I didn't, and I don't know I'm stressed. And I don't know I'm not stressed. Right.

Do you know what I mean? But your body knows. My body obviously knows.

So it'd be interesting, I'll keep this on, get on the ashwagandha and see if it makes any difference. Yeah, just see, that's how you'll know.

But I would love to see, I think you'd have more energy to answer the question if your TSH was lower. It's backwards, when you're reading thyroid it's backwards.

When it's overactive, the number's lower. When it's underactive, the number's higher. So it's a bit confusing, but you really wanna get it

sort of within that range, one to two, if we can. I love ashwagandha, that's my sleep thing. Oh okay, I thought Reishi was better for sleep,

but I'll give it a go, I have a tea. You can safely, I would never say something anywhere public that's not generally safe for people to try.

Okay. So just so anyone that's listening. Was there anything else that you noticed?

I had more questions, what else did I notice? Assuming that, were you using, I don't know how in depth you wanna get here, are you using any hormones?

Yes, I'm an HRT. So that's why you-- That's why my progesterone and estrogen

are super high. - Yes, that explains that then. And it was sort of where you would expect it to be, FSH, LH, so that's follicle stimulating hormone

that stimulates the follicles on the ovaries and the LH, which is your luteinizing hormone, which triggers ovulation.

As we get older, FSH gets higher and higher and higher and higher, so that's a test that we use to see if someone's sort of nearing menopause

or in menopause, and that's exactly where you'd expect it to be for where you're at, so nothing revolutionary there. Okay, good, all right, we're gonna deep dive on mine,

but it has to be day one of my cycle, so we'll report back. - Yes, yes. Because it'll be so fascinating to hear.

You know, as I'm listening to this, we always want there to be something, like, oh, just tell me what it is, what can I take for that?

But the underlying, and you said at the start, it's like most of it is regulating stress, that it's like as soon as you hear,

there's nothing wrong with you except you're really stressed, your adrenals are burnt out, or you just, it's your nervous system.

What do you prescribe someone, 'cause I can think of thousands of women who fit into this category,

because it's every woman, and I think it's, again, it's coming to that modern day woman that is doing all of the things,

and I wonder, too, if I look, I always look back and go, what would my grandmother have been doing at this point in time?

Like, I ask myself this question all the time. Depends on the time of day, doesn't it? Well, it does, but they weren't doing what I'm doing now.

No. - At the same age, right? Something's gotta give, and also, there's a large portion of women walking around telling themselves

how stressed they are every day, as well. The ones that you go, how are you, oh, I'm so busy, so busy, like, we've adopted this idea

that more is more is more, but we are doing a lot. Often, we've got children, we're running a household, we're working full-time, we might have parents

that we're starting to have to look after. Sounds like your life. Right, so it's like, there's all of these things,

and then we're constantly telling ourselves we're busy all the time. It's no wonder our nervous systems,

they're just responding to the environment we're putting them in, they're not choosing violence, it's just the way that it goes.

I had to learn to be bored. Correct, so the way that you fix your nervous system is a series of very boring things

repeated over and over again. It truly is, it is like a lesson in childhood boredom. It really is.

But I realised it was safety, I had to feel safe in myself again. And you know, if, and we've all had something

that's been a major event, like I've told you Geordie's story, at that point in time, I threw myself into busy because I didn't wanna hear what anyone had to say,

I didn't wanna do anything that anyone told me that I had to do, and that can be a disaster because once you're on that hamster wheel,

it's really hard to get off. And I didn't wanna hear my voice in my head at that time, I had to keep myself busy, and I think it paid off,

but you have to have a realisation at some point in time, my nervous system is shot. You have to actually have a wake up call,

there you go, do you like that? I didn't mean that. You actually do have to have that point

where something triggers you to actually check in. Yeah, and slow down. One of the best things women say that I teach them,

which is the most basic thing, is I ask them to try and just check in with how they're feeling several times a day.

So I know it sounds cliche, but hear me out. So this is a lesson in becoming bored, right? Lesson one, learn your feelings.

This is a lesson in becoming present, or human. This is true. - Human, yeah. But we're not good at it, so I get women

to put a reminder in their phone. Yeah, every three hours, bing, how's your feelings? And you know what, I wanna throw my phone

when it comes up, I'm like, shush, go away, like eh. But what I want you to ask yourself is, how am I feeling? And the majority of the time it's like overwhelmed,

frustrated, busy, frantic, like it's these words that are coming to mind, right? I don't want you to do anything with it,

I just want you to clock it. Because we're so unconscious about how frazzled we are that we just keep on doing more

of the same repetitive, silly habit over and over again. So if you can clock it, and your body actually registers it, you become better at recognizing

when you're in fight or flight, and when you're actually not. And at least even if you are often,

me just creating micro moments for patients where we can get that down actually starts to help, you start to become more aware.

It's the, oh, I just sighed again, okay, noted, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. Do I warrant, is my day warranted for me feeling like this?

And you can either answer yes or no. Like, often it's not, it's a to-do list that's too long. Or you don't know what to make for dinner,

so you're in your head about it. Don't know what to wear. Don't know what to wear.

Don't know what to put on. So we've gotta be more, you know what, we're smart. Women are smart.

And we've really lost that. - What's another hack to come back and calm your nervous system? Three deep breaths before eating.

And it's not that it's the before eating part of it, it's just that it creates a habit that you do it. It does set you up for it, like to digest.

But breath is, we know this, the best nervous system reset. You can do it, it's why you take a sigh when you're feeling stressed.

You can do it at the traffic lights, you can do it on the toilet, you can do it wherever. Like, it doesn't really matter.

And I like to get a bit woo. I like to tell patients to speak to their bodies and see what, actually have a conversation out loud.

Like, thanks for that, that's awesome. What else can you show me that's awesome? Like, start talking to yourself, it's--

First sign of madness. Yes, it's amazing! But you will find that it tells you things,

but you'll have ideas back. - It does listen back, yeah. I noticed this morning that I, even when I did an intentional deep breath,

it didn't regulate, nothing that my nervous system didn't feel like it just slowed down at all. So I know one of my hacks to go to is humming.

Amazing. And I get a song and I just hum it. And that vibration, you know, impacts the vagus nerve,

which then talks to the rest of my body. You're safe, you're calm, just chill. And then the minute I stop humming,

I feel the agitation again, so I've gotta go back into the humming. Well, it's funny you say that also,

because if you can't get yourself into that, acupuncture can be really great to do that. I love acupuncture.

And I had a patient on the weekend, and I left her like I would normally leave her, and I came back 20 minutes later.

She's like, "Oh, I can't, I'm not relaxing, "it's not working, I can't get enough." And she's a long-term patient, so she knows--

The drill. - The drill. I said, "Just wait a second, okay, it's fine." I put a couple of like ear stickers in her ears,

and I said, "Do you have another 10 minutes?" And she's like, "Yes." And I said, "Well, do you wanna lie here

"for another 10 minutes?" She's like, "Okay." So she said, when I left the room, she said to herself,

"Oh, this is not gonna work, this is ridiculous, "I can't relax today, next minute I walk in." And she's like.

(both laughing) Great, so we need ear stickers to sleep. So you just need something to circuit break,

and whatever that is for you. And if you can't, sometimes, like I said, you don't need to be at your acupuncturist every day,

but it's a circuit breaker that can be a tool that can help. Yeah, the humming in the shower has been a good one for me. Yeah, there you go.

Humming, singing, talking to your body, yeah. But they're all just tools, right? And I think the other thing that we forget is,

meditation's one that people either love or they hate, right? We know it's good for you, no one's arguing. But I say to people, I know I'm better when I'm med--

If I'm really stressed, I know that's something that's gonna help me. Do I do it every day?

No, because I'm gonna get stressed about the fact that I'm not doing it every day, and then I'm not doing the practice.

But if I pull it out of my toolkit, when I know I need it, and it's just a tool that I can pull on, and sometimes I'll do it for three weeks in a row,

and then I won't do it for another month, that's okay. It's just something in the toolkit. Yeah, you talk a lot about toolkits,

and I think that that's, everyone that comes in here, like the top three toolkits are always free, but they're almost the hardest to do,

'cause they're like self-advocacy, or self-discipline, or-- Well, we're often trained to seek outside of ourselves to find the response or the answer, the solution, right?

Give me the pill, give me the potion. Help me understand. Help me understand it.

What do I need to take, do, or believe? Whereas, as you're alluding to, all of the tools are actually--

From within. From within, or within our grasp, if we just stop long enough to tune in.

Yes, more information's not more. No. (laughs) No, but I feel like this is where we talk

about body signals, 'cause I know for a long time I gaslit my own signals, even though I knew that something was wrong, I had the intuition,

I just constantly, like, AI'd it, Googled it, you know? Like, there's so many moments in there where I think, "Oh, no, Tess," and I still do it today.

(laughing) 'Cause you're human. Yeah, I mean, my blood results chat gave me a 10 out of 10.

Oh, amazing, yes, good. Even for I am. (laughing) You asked me how to have more energy,

I'm just telling you, I loved it.

where do people go? So they get their blood tests, they understand their body, they're working with a highly skilled practitioner,

and you've got, say, five things you're gonna give them. What is the main ones that you're giving people? So I often say to patients, the very first thing,

when I'm putting together their plan, do not be underwhelmed with what I'm about to tell you. (laughing)

Because what do we want? I'm already in final flight. We want 65 supplements that are gonna,

try to take more than three or four things I think is overwhelming in the first place. You should go to Layne's house.

Well, I mean, it's been an evolution. I'm sure you didn't wake up one day and just go however many things you're taking,

you're taking, right? But for the person that's starting out, that their nervous system is dysregulated,

they're thick in the throes of mid 40s, and they feel like they just can't get themselves out the door in the morning,

adding 65 supplements to that woman's regime is never going to work. So I always say, please don't be underwhelmed.

I've done this many, many times. You need to trust the process. I'm gonna give you a few things that you can do,

and we're just gonna see if that's enough to move the needle. And it depends--

And I'm gonna trust that you're gonna do them. That's right. Well, this is the thing where I go throw it back to them.

Do you think you could do three or four things? Because I could give you six or seven, I can guarantee you won't do them.

So how's three or four sound? And it's just, I don't know, psychologically makes, I can do that.

Reverse psychology. Right, so we keep it very, very simple. And I definitely start with that mechanism

of the gut, liver, and bowels, which is why we created M-Body product, the Absolut. So the Absolut, which we gave you guys to try,

was probably the most boring thing I've ever made. And it came about because I used to say to patients, can you please mix together chia, slippery arm, flaxseed,

and I'm missing one, flaxseed, chia, slippery arm. Sillium? Sillium.

Take a breath. Sillium. Sillium.

I always forget one every time. Well, we remember things in threes as humans, so it's always the fourth one.

I didn't know that. Yeah, that stumps us a little bit. So I always used to say to patients,

please just mix this together and take one teaspoon every day. And they'd come back a month later and I'd say,

how did you go? And they're like, oh, I haven't done that yet. So this is years ago, I created, I blended it.

I used to blend it at the clinic and I used to give it to them on the way out. Be like, come back after you've done that for a month,

let me know how that goes. Everyone's like, oh my gosh, it's so amazing. And I'm like, it's literally food.

So then when I met Jess, my business partner, she was in the throes of endometriosis, which I see a lot of women for,

and she introduced me to MSM, which is a sulfur. And she's like, I swear this has helped me. Can you have a look at it?

And I said to her, you know what? And at the time, we weren't business partners. We had a different business.

I said, you know what? If I mix this with those four ingredients and added some partially hydrolyzed guar gum,

I think this could be game-changing for women. So that's what I did. And we made this very boring product

that has had the most amazing results. Again, it's majority food. What it does is it does what I wanted

that simple first step for women to be. It works on the gut 'cause it feeds the good gut bacteria. It's high in fiber, so it regulates blood sugar,

helps with liver detoxification. It's a binder for excess, fiber's a binder for excess hormones.

So if you've got too much estrogen or too much testosterone, it binds and it means you go to the toilet every day. I would say the number one thing

is going to the toilet every day. If you're not doing that, you have to start there. And it usually starts with looking at your diet

or if there's been any overuse of antibiotics or any medications really. So everyone generally gets the absolute these days

because I find it's simple and it's food and-- And it makes you poo. It makes you poo.

Yeah. And even the teenagers-- Pooing people are happy people, aren't they?

They really are, even the mum that goes, "My teen's got acne, is she pooing every day?" And they're like, "No."

I'm like, "There, I'll start there." Yeah. So I generally start with that.

I always, so it's the liver part of that that I really love for patients. Some type of liver support

and phase two liver detox is super important. I'll always give them some form of magnesium because of all the reasons that we love magnesium.

There's so many and there's so many that we're not even allowed to say that it does that it does.

And I normally these days, depending on what's happening for them, I'll normally give them an appropriate probiotic as well.

And I just find that that's enough. And then I get them to do a couple of other things. I try and make them drink their cup of tea in the morning,

outside in the sunlight, because sunlight is the most amazing energy giver that you're ever gonna get

and helps to regulate your hormones. And I kind of probably start with those things alongside obviously a treatment.

That's kind of where I start with almost all patients. It just sounds so easy to be true, right? Well.

Well, too good to be true. Not really, no. It actually sounds really feasible and quite simple.

But most GPs wouldn't guide you in that direction because they do what, an hour on nutrition in their studies? - That's not much.

It's a really small amount. And maybe two hours on menopause. (laughing)

LB, I wanted to go into menopause with you and midlife

And I was actually really nervous of it 'cause you said it before, we hear all of this stress, like I'm stressed, it's busy, the world's on fire,

two crazy men are throwing rockets at each other. Like there's just a lot of head noise out there, interest rates rising, you know, like it's constant.

And then inside of that, it's like women are burnt out, women are carrying the load. Like there's a lot of messaging that's coming in,

which is almost making me more vulnerable to it, so to speak, especially like I'm an empath, so I feel for so many people who are broken right now.

She is a deep empath. High five, me too. Yeah, it's one of her gifts.

It's one of her gifts. And then Layne's the tiger shark with a little bit of empathy too.

But-- - Just a little. When Layne was going through menopause-- Which I still am.

You were going through it at a time where there was, you couldn't have a meno moment. There was hot flashes, like there was no,

there wasn't as much knowledge or information or support or discussion around it 'cause it was 19. I mean, 19, it was, yeah, I'm 75.

(laughing) It was about 2019, 2020. That's where you got the 19 part from.

Yeah, yeah, that was a meno moment, yeah. But then my mom, she's like, "Oh, menopause is horrible." Like she got, like I went through it

and I didn't know what was happening and HRT wasn't. And now, now I think like us peri-girls are going through a bit of nervousness about it.

Can you help, we've talked about language being so important in the journey. Can you help us reframe perimenopause and menopause

to the beauty of it? Absolutely, I'm spending every day trying to break the algorithm

from it being doom and gloom, terrible luck. Oh, awesome. - That's the way, today I put a post up, I'm like,

"Just putting this here to break the algorithm. "I don't know if it'll work or not, "but just let's give it a go."

I think the problem is that we, there's a few issues. There's a really big gap in the teen years where health is just not really focused on

and I think that's actually part of the cascade that happens, how we got here. So I think that that's, I'm very passionate

about talking about teen health for that reason. The teen years as far as the basics, like hydration, nutrition.

A lot of girls are put on birth control. Oh, yes, yeah. Their hormones are flatlined.

There's no looking into why, what's happening and the foundations are not set up. Did you know that if you start birth control at, say, 16,

your hormones, your sex hormones don't mature fully until around the age of 21. So if you're flatlining hormones at 16

and you come off birth control at 26, your body goes back to your 16-year-old self to continue that process.

Oh, wow. This is a problem for long-term health, right? I did not know that and I went on birth control at 16.

The research does suggest that the older you are, the less problematic it is long-term. So after 21, using birth control then

does tend to be less problematic. The women's bodies tend to mature a little bit later, don't we?

Well, it's kind of like, it kind of, one does one, then the next. Like, we get there in the end, but yes.

So yeah, in terms of that, though, that maturation is around 21. So it is later than boys, I guess.

So I think that's a missing piece of the conversation and how we kind of have got here. We are going into our mid-30s and 40s

more stretched than ever. This just literally exposes all of the irregularities that have always been there,

the things that we've been ignoring for all of time. We don't have the buffering that we once had. And so therefore it looks like it's an awful time.

And I feel like if we can prepare women before all of this conversation starts in their fertile years, especially,

like I see women that cruise through menopause 'cause the scaffolding was there beforehand. So there's a gap at the moment

where we haven't had that education and scaffolding. Therefore the echo chamber is how bad it is. We haven't got anyone in an echo chamber going,

"This is actually fantastic." Well, we've got you. Well, I'm really trying, like I'm really trying.

What's the positive algorithm of women's hormones? I mean, I feel fantastic. So I don't know, but I don't have all the answers yet

'cause I'm still menstruating. So I don't have, but I have helped lots of patients through this process or natural process,

which isn't even evolution, whatever we call it, who have done it in various ways. And we've got all these tools that we can use

and it's about finding the tools that you need. And I think that's the problem. Often women are sold HRT

is the only thing that you need to do. And we know that that's not true. You still have to look after yourself.

And there's a lot of women that can't take HRT or don't want to. From what my research is,

I'm not a candidate for HRT based on my genetics. So I have to figure out what I'm gonna do, right? This is another reason that I'm passionate

'cause it's like, well, what are you supposed to do? Just leave a whole proportion of women out there that can't actually take this,

that they're gonna be just left out? No, not at all. So it's a recalibration.

where I was like, oh, this is what people talk about. And this is not nice. But it lasted for a moment and I promised myself,

all right, I'm gonna figure this out now. What did you experience in that moment? I just remember lying on my bed going,

I feel awful, every part of me. Emotionally, physically, I just felt awful in my body. How old were you in?

This is only like the start of last year, which is not that long ago. But I definitely saw it as a pivotal.

And so I'd been, this is why I love wearables because I had been watching my cycles and I'd noticed that I thought my Oura ring was broken.

And it turns out actually I wasn't ovulating. So I was like, ooh, I see what's happening. So it was a series of aha moments that I put together.

And I was like, right. I remember just saying over and over to myself, Nat, it's just a moment, it's gonna pass.

You're gonna sit here and you're gonna feel better and it's gonna be okay. This has never happened to me before, by the way.

I'm just not this way. Like I know what happens to people and we're all different, but I just, it was the first time that I'd experienced it.

So I promised myself that this was not gonna be my life. What did I do? I did a hormone panel

and I had a look at what was happening. My testosterone was in the absolute bottom of the range. Everything else was kind of not too bad.

I was like, right, I know how to build testosterone. I need to eat more protein. I need to lift heavy things.

Did I do that? No, I went and got a coach. I was like, I need someone to actually keep me accountable.

I know what to do. You know what to do, but having that person there, we've always had that person,

whether it's a parent or a teacher or a manager at work, or there's always been that person. And then we get to this age

and there's kind of not that person anymore. So I felt that that was a real game changer. And so six months I just worked really hard

and I focused on just that and a few little supplements, nothing crazy. And I'd retested my hormones six months later

and my testosterone had doubled. And I was like, look at me go. And I know that if I can get women's testosterone

to be robust through this phase, they absolutely fare better. They absolutely do.

So I would say I'm feeling the best I've felt in a very long time, but I'm very much got myself to a point where I'm like,

right, each month I look back and I go, how do I course correct so that I keep being here? And that's what I plan on doing until it runs out.

And I don't know what happens after that. I'll let you know. (laughing)

is when we reflect on our teenage years, for example, that's where you start building the scaffolding. And I think about as a baby,

because I was adopted at birth, so I wasn't breastfed and I wasn't held. So I wasn't able to build connection, trust, safety,

but also microbiome through the breast milk. And then I was lactose intolerant, which was misdiagnosed as flu-like symptoms

because I had a lot of phlegm and a lot of mucus. So I was put on antibiotics as a teenager, consistently, which once again destroyed my gut microbiome.

So I've always had a compromised immune system and a super sensitive stomach. So now in my fifties,

I very easily get gassy, bloated, uncomfortable, like one mouthful of something can have that response. And so having a practitioner

that you can relate these symptoms to, because when you go through menopause, you think, oh, that's my lot.

That's it. - Absolutely. That's it for me. That's all I have to deal with visceral fat.

I have to deal with the discomfort. I have to deal with the fact that words just fucking disappear.

And I just thought, what was I just about to say? What was I talking about? So recognizing that this is part of the process,

but it isn't the end point. You don't actually have to live with this shit. No, it's not, yeah.

So I thought, I mean, I was going to do a keynote once and I was running late because I had heart palpitations and dizzy spells.

I literally thought I was having a heart attack. No, menopause. I took myself after a cardiologist.

I went to Ross Walker. I was like, I need all the tests. I need to make sure my heart's okay.

So where I'm coming from here, firstly, action is the antidote to fear. So taking action, getting the tests.

But secondly, looking back at your history and where you perhaps have compromised your health in your youth will give you an indication

of some of the things you need to start paying attention to to set up the scaffolding, to ensure that you're not suffering

from long-term complications due to those compromises because I do not like going on antibiotics. I actually do everything I can to avoid them.

And I work with a practitioner who's an expert nutritionist and dietician and reading bloods and all of that.

So I have that one person. So when things are going well, I don't go anywhere. I don't need to contact her,

but as things start getting uncomfortable. So for example, when I had all of that bloating and gassiness, I thought, oh fuck, this is it.

You know, my life's over. And then she put me in a grain-free diet and it was game-changing.

I did not realize that I had such a sensitivity to grains and I've been able to wean a few back on, but it's little things.

But when you know someone that's knowledgeable and willing to look at the breadth of your life and not just pinpoint one thing

because that's what the medical journal says to do, that's where you start to glean the benefits of the knowledge and the wisdom that people like you

have to share. So thank you. Oh, you're welcome.

Thank you for doing the research, the study, and thank you for the curiosity because if you just accepted the pediatrician's guidance

and counsel like a lot of people do because they're so stuck in fear, lack of knowledge, lack of knowing where to start,

then we wouldn't be able to explore these avenues. So we're grateful that people like you are willing to do that.

Oh, thank you. Well, I like to say also when it comes to Geordie and it's just relevant to everybody,

like I'm an expert in Geordie's life. I live with him every day, just as we should be experts when it comes to our own bodies

but we still need guidance but nobody else knows how you feel. You only know how you feel.

And you know when you feel off. Correct. So don't, and I think also for women,

it's very normal that we put ourselves at the bottom of the pile and we're like, I'll deal with that later.

And that's not a healthy place to operate from because you actually in the long run become good to no one. And especially not yourself.

So I think all of these things are really important but advocating for what you feel you need is the most important thing anyone will ever do.

And if you know that an answer is wrong because you know things, you're not silly, then find the next person that can help you.

There's always someone there that will listen. You've got to find them. Yeah, I had this pain in my stomach, which I still have.

It's been there for about six years and I went and got a colonoscopy. And after the procedure, the clinician came out and said,

have you tried cognitive behavioral therapy? Really? I still think it is.

I still think it's an emotional. I even gave Layne, have you heard of the books, "Mind Your Body"?

No. - Yeah. I've been doing that. It's a brilliant book

and it talks through like how emotional pain presents itself as physical pain. Which I've known for a very long time.

And I subscribed to that and I did the writing exercise. And there's a part of me that I'm not concerned about this anymore.

It just lives there. It shows up at times that's inconvenient but that's because perhaps I've had too much sugar.

It's right side, so it's masculine. It's stomach, it's something I'm not digesting. I know it pertains to my dad

because he's declining rapidly. So that's why I just sit with it and go, yeah, okay. And I call it Bob.

(laughs) He forgave my name. Yeah, I do.

And so I'm lying there, I'm like, oh, Bob's a bit active today. (laughs)

And that's the biggest part is like, we're coming into this like physical, get bloods, do this. But there's so many emotional pains

that we are not willing to look at. Yeah, and to sit with. And to sit with and I mean, Bob's your greatest teacher

'cause it's teaching you to sit with that pain.

I would love to run through a few different ones with you. Can you give us your hot tips on these please? Sure.

Okay, what do you personally do when your energy drops? Go to the sauna. (laughs)

Infrared or steam? Infrared, just because I have one. I'm not good at that habit, but it definitely does help

because it also helps me sleep deeper. And then I'm a bit more, I don't know, this just feels good after you sweat.

It feels so good. You feel good, it's like after doing it, you know, sweating with exercise, you feel good.

Yeah. So sweating with the sauna, it definitely does help with, yeah.

Yeah, I love it. And I've noticed if I have it, I'm interested whether you know, have felt this LB,

if you have it too late at night, you don't sleep so well. Mm-hmm.

I need to have it earlier. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly. Yes. What are your non-negotiables for sleep, food,

movement, and recovery? My non-negotiable sleep, I'm a champion sleeper, so it doesn't matter where I am,

I will sleep 13 hours on a plane. So my non-negotiable is-- Are you one of those people that take off

and you're already asleep? Oh, wow, I'd love to be. And I don't take anything either.

I was like, oh, what's your secret? I want that. And I'm like, hmm, I just,

so the secret is you gotta keep your eyes closed. Yeah. (laughing)

But if you wake up, you just have to keep them closed. Like, that's my rule. Don't open your eyes, doesn't matter if you wake up,

don't open your eyes, don't open your eyes. I just say that to myself over and over. Keep them closed, keep them closed, keep them closed.

Yeah, yeah. And then I'd-- Food?

Non-negotiable, I eat a lot of protein, not that I am saying that that's all you should eat, but protein and fiber are the two things

that like, they are non-negotiables. I will look at every plate and go, where's the protein, where's the fiber?

Awesome, and recovery and movement too. Movement, I am very much a fan of getting in and just lifting heavy things.

That's something that's a non-negotiable. The other stuff around it can exist as well, but I have those times locked in my calendar every week,

otherwise it doesn't happen. Yeah. And then just being active where I can.

Walk to work or wherever I can. Yesterday I rearranged my son's bedroom. I was sweating by the end of it.

I'm like, that ticks that box for the day. Yeah. And what was the one more?

Recovery. Recovery. Two things, hydration's really important to me.

I'm not the best at it again, but I do try and I know I feel better when I actually stick to hydrating myself.

And then again, I would use the sauna for recovery as well. I find that that is really great. And the other thing I probably should mention,

MSM, which is the sulfur I was talking about, is amazing for like DOMS and preventing DOMS from happening and muscular recovery, so I--

It slows the sauna after training. There you go, see? It prevents DOMS.

Which for those who don't understand the word DOMS, it's delayed onset of muscle soreness. We don't want that, do we?

No, we don't. No, especially awful when you go to get out of bed two days after training and you fall to the ground.

(laughing) What boundary protects your energy the most? Oh, I have a radar for people that are just full of it.

I just can't do it. And I am very, very open to all and everybody, but if I actually sense that you're full of it, I can't.

I just can't. Do you say something? No.

You just walk away? Yeah, I just go, you're not my person. And I just try and distance myself from those people.

My radar for those people over the years has become very fine-tuned, so I just can't. It's not worth the energy.

And every time I just waver on it, I'm like, ah, I did it yesterday, and I was like, I wavered, and I'm like, there's the lesson, back to that.

We broke through the radar. Yeah, not you. What gives you energy purely because you love it?

What gives you joy? Spending time with people I love. It gives me so much energy.

I can go and do a keynote and then wanna go home and sit with family and friends and have a nice meal, and that will give me energy.

So, yes. We had a guest on the podcast by Tristan Knowles, who's a Paralympian basketball player,

and he read Tuesdays with Morrie. And the great question, the profound ideal around the book is if you only had 24 hours to live, how would you spend it?

And everyone that answers it is around quality time with quality people. So important, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think at the end of the day, when you look back and you look at the highlights and where you've had the most healing,

and it's those times where you're sitting around, you're sharing stories, you're laughing, fun, I think that's just lost and it's so important, yeah.

Let's bring it back. Yeah. - Let's bring it back. All right, now completely sentence.

Your wake-up call is not your wake-up call until you... Don't have your health anymore. Yeah.

'Cause if you don't have that, what do you have? Nothing. That's right.

The most important thing for you to be in tune with, don't be obsessed about it, but be obsessed enough that it matters, if that makes sense.

You don't need to do everything, but I think it's important that we're doing the basics. The basics.

Yeah, the basics are just get long and wide now, these days, don't they? - Oh my gosh, yes. Thanks to Instagram and all the things.

You never know what you're buying at 2 a.m. in the morning. Yeah. (laughing) Yes, Des.

Yes, me. I know, we ended up with butterflies the other day, so. Butterfly farm.

Yeah, exactly. Nat, you have been such a gift to us. You've given us so many beautiful insights and tips

and just that radiant positivity about health empowerment. I wanna end on two notes.

I think asking at any given time how you are, like legitimately, how are you? And listen.

And listen. You know, but also for the woman that's listening, are you asking for what you need at the same time?

We're not good at doing that either. So I think the biggest thing that being able to say to my husband, can I just leave that with you?

Or I'm gonna tell you something and I need you to answer me this way. Yeah, I need a solution or I need a shoulder.

Or just it's gonna be okay. Like that is so healing in itself. We don't know how it's gonna be okay,

but it's gonna be okay. Like if you can say to your partner, I don't have the best answer 'cause I don't know,

but it's gonna be okay, we'll make it okay. I think that's really important. So it's again, we've got to still ask for what we want,

but I think having that and not just assuming that your wife's going crazy because she's-- She's not.

She's not. Kirk's really good at, I've told him that, you know, my ring picks up the fact that when I'm going up

to get dressed for the day that I get stressed. So sometimes he's sitting just at the bottom of the stairs on his computer and I go, I'm gonna go up and get ready.

He's like, remember to breathe. Aww, see, they do care. And in five minutes, he's like, are you breathing?

(laughing) Yeah, I said to my husband the other day, he was telling me something and I was trying

to do a thousand things and I just looked at him and I said, I'm not sure that's really helpful for me right now in my brain and then, and he said something to me

the other day, he goes, I can't, I'm at capacity, I've got capacity debt 'cause we've got a white paper on capacity, so it's funny when you get this funny language

between each other, you're just able to share it more. Nat, where can the world hear more Nat, learn more about you and try your wonderful supplements?

Thank you, everything's Nat Kringoudis everywhere. There's only one, I know that sounds like, only one. And that's spelled K-R-I-N-G-O-U-D-I-S.

We will link it. - That's correct. And then, M-body is our very humble-- Beautiful product. - Products, yes.

And you've got an amazing creatine and we are big fans of creatine, so we'll be giving that a go. We've worked very, very hard to get that creatine

into Australia and it is, if creatine's upset your tummy in the past, this one won't. Okay, brilliant, we'll report back to you.

Put it to the test. So you can take, I did something the other day, I was like, this is what five grams look like, this is 10.

And this is 30, not that I'm recommending that, but that's what they say if you haven't, like if you're a shift worker or you're having issues,

it's a lot, I don't know who's taking that. But anyway, creatine, it's super safe anyway. Awesome, yeah, when I was really tired the other day,

I was like, ugh. - Yes, it really helps. It does help when you're tired. Yeah, yeah, but don't take it at night,

'cause it fucks with your sleep, or it fucks with mine. All right, dream team, today has been informative, inspiring, what an incredible story of empowerment

and just taking control of your own health and wellbeing. And that is a lesson that we've learned the hard way. And it's so nice to hear someone

with more credentials than us tell people that as well. Dream team, if this episode has resonated with you, please share it with another woman or your husband

or someone so they just understand the journey that you are on. And also take the time, get the test,

go see the pagoda tree. I know that you do it online as well, 'cause knowledge is power.

So we'll see you next week, dream team. More power to ya. Toodles! - Toodles!

Awake is a center of human performance. So if you wanna bring more energy, motivation, and connection to your team.

Reach out to us at [email protected].