Do It For Life – Burnout and Leading with a Healthier Heart

by us, Tess Brouwer and seven-time world champion, Layne Beachley. We're the founders of Awake Academy. This podcast mixes raw life lessons, expert wisdom and practical tips to help you stop sleepwalking through life and start living it on your terms. You ready to wake up and thrive? Let's go. Before we begin, we have a quick favour to ask. If this podcast has been landing for you, please hit subscribe and leave us a rating or review. It helps us grow the show and keep bringing these conversations to more people.

leading one of Australia's biggest purpose-driven organisations, Damien recently had a wake-up call of his own. A moment that shifted something, a moment that reminded him that wellbeing is not just something we talk about, promote or build into programs. It's something we have to live, protect, pay attention to. And that is what is going to make today's conversation so powerful. Damien is the CEO and Managing Director of AIA Australia, a proud partner of Awake Academy and A Wake Up Call podcast, where he leads with purpose, helping Australians live healthier, longer, better lives. Under his leadership, AIA has helped drive a national conversation around prevention, everyday wellbeing, and what it really means to support people before they hit breaking point. You've been recognised as the Insurance Leader of the Year on multiple occasions, a shared value champion, and have led thousands of people through immense change and continue to speak up for the growing need for better mental health support in Australia, something very close to our hearts. Today is not about leadership, titles, or business success. It's about the human behind the role and the wake-up call behind the mission. Welcome, Damien Mu. Hey, Layne. Hey, Tess. Great to be here with you guys today.

that you're going to live a healthier, better life too. You've got to walk the talk apparently. You had your own wake-up call. So what happened? Tell us all about it. Yeah, well, I love the whole question around the wake-up call because here I am going along thinking I'm super healthy, doing it all right, flying 152 flights a year, living on four hours sleep at night, training every day. I've got it all going, right? Running a company, got the kids, it's all happening. And then I went on a program, and they talked about the HQ, the health quotient rather than the EQ or the IQ. And they said, can you wear this device for 48 hours? I said, yeah, no problem. And when I got the results back, I was just blown away and I got my wake-up call, essentially.

eight out of 100. So essentially, while I thought I was healthy and well and going to be here for my children and to be able to continue to do what I was doing, leading AIA and changing the dream, essentially I was headed for my own disaster. And so it really, really had struck me around what I didn't know about my own health and wellbeing. How long ago was that? It was a few years ago. It was pre-COVID. And of course, COVID forced me to stop flying as well. So it was like getting a little bit of extra sleep. And then I started realising that it was just a lack of knowledge and an assumption I was making, which was that healthy was just about your physical health, right? How much you could run, how many pushups you could do. And this really gave me a big wake-up because I had a young family and I want to be there for them. And I had so much more I still wanted to do in my career.

All these things people were saying to you started to resonate and hit you like a smack in the face. Like, oh, wow, that's what they meant about me not being present or not having been fully attentive or burning out. All of those things were just words that were bouncing off me because I was living in my own world, feeling energetic and living on the cortisol and the endorphins. You were Superman. Well, yes, apparently. It's so interesting to me because I feel like I've had these moments in my life where the carry-on culture gave me performance metrics. So I was super successful, but at the same time I was burning out and I didn't have the lever, the moment that was like, hey, watch this data. It's so much easier to show someone a message through data than it is to say, hey, you don't seem right. So when you spoke to the person running this program, did you then go to a doctor? What do you do with the data? Because so many people have had data wake-up calls but what do they do? Yeah, that's the key part, isn't it, Tess? You've got the knowledge, what are you going to do about it? The first thing was I was fortunate enough to have Dr Jamie Lee, who took me through the program, do a debrief with me. It was about identifying the reality of what this could mean from a health perspective, both mental and physical, if it continued down this path. Not to say it would happen, but what could happen, which makes it very real.

a stroke, heart attack, many diseases that come off the back of it. We often don't realise illnesses eventuate and a lot of people go, how did that happen? Was it just luck or unlucky? No, actually there are many instances where it's because for many years people are living without the knowledge of the things that are impacting their body, both physical and mental, which then result in many forms of illnesses that are very much life-threatening. You hear many times about the person who's going for a run and all of a sudden they have that heart attack. And it's because, unfortunately, they're not aware of the wear and tear. It's like you call it the carry-on. I didn't allow myself, and I knew unconsciously that what I was doing wasn't great for my health. But I wouldn't allow myself to stop because what comes with that stop and that pause was not something I wanted to accept. Too busy for health. Yeah. I mean, that's the nature of a high performer. We see that as just another obstacle we have to overcome and push through. We don't see that as a warning sign. It's an orange light, not a red light. For me, it was a real fear of weakness. If I couldn't continue to keep going that way, it would have been a sign of weakness. How flawed is that? How sad is that? But that's my reality and I'm not ashamed of it. I saw it as, not to others, but to myself, as a sign of weakness if I couldn't keep carrying on. Is that a story that came from yourself or was that a story projected onto you? I don't think it was projected onto me. I think it's what I perceived as I grew up. I came from a first-generation migrant Australian family. My grandmother, my mum, my dad, everyone was working hard. It was work, work, work, and no one complained, two or three jobs. We did what we had to do. And it wasn't a sorry story, it was a great story. I was blessed to grow up the way I did. But seeing that was ingrained in me from the time I was born. Hard work is what you do, right? And then you couple that with sport and the competitive side comes in, and the performance side. And then you bring that into leadership roles.

even your own sense of self. Like who am I when I stop working? That was a big thing for me. What is rest? What do you do when you rest? I had no idea what that even means. You didn't have that on the world tour. No, I was like, Damo, what the hell is rest and what do we need it for? I'll rest or sleep when I'm dead. So what did you have to let go of? You had to relearn, you had to change your mindset. What did that look like for you? It wasn't like I suddenly woke up the next day meditating, sleeping, eating better. The first thing was finding my why. I know that sounds cliche, but it's the truth. Really thinking about the fact that Bailey and Kai, I wanted to be around for them. And the thought that me going about doing what I was doing was just really quite selfish. If I was saying I was doing all this hard work for my family, then that is about being there for them. The second was a why around wanting to be a great leader that could inspire a nation. And you're not going to do that if you're not around.

comes a sense of loss. Did you feel like you lost something? No, I feel like I gained exponentially, and I mean that. It's not so different from fatherhood, leadership, parenthood. It is about being present and having impact. What I had to think about was that activity didn't automatically result in positive impact. Busyness, hard work didn't mean it was going to automatically result in positive impact. So I had to reprogram my mind. I got the stress recovery and it was 23 or 25 out of 100, and I said to myself, imagine if I could improve that to 40 out of 100, imagine how much more positive impact I could have. So I gave myself a carrot rather than a stick. I had my pity party early, pulled out my cupcake, and had my little pity party. And it's important, because you need to process and acknowledge the feelings that come with it. If you don't, that's when many times you get the data but you don't take action, because you don't allow yourself to feel the feeling of it.

now you've got HQ. The next one is RQ, relationship intelligence. The benefit of all those metrics coming together is that your relationships expand exponentially because of the way that you care and love yourself. I do remember in my healing journey, I've got two different coloured eyes, and when I was really dark, no one noticed my eye colour. I would run from the lift. I didn't want to be seen. And as I started those micro moments, the quick five-minute meditation or the walk on the beach instead of the hard run, you start to become lighter and freer. What was it for you in your relationships and how you led? The beautiful moment is when someone came back to me and said, what are you doing differently? You seem lighter, you seem more open. And the amount of people that would comment on my eye colour, and I would engage in the coffee order which I was avoiding — all of those moments meant something.

was great, got to go now. And I'm like, where are you going? It was the first time he left the game we were playing. It was always me running off saying, okay, I've got to go now. And then the feedback you get from your team that just really values it. The one that really resonates is when someone sends me a message and says, thank you so much, I've never felt like I've been seen before. I felt like you saw me in that moment. And it really hit me that all it took was just that moment to care and show some kindness and be interested in someone. And it happened to be someone who was going through some really challenging times. And I go, wow, if I can do that, then I really am being more of the person I want to be. Do you ever reflect on this period, especially when you run into this individual who said wear this device for 48 hours? Do you ever reflect and think, what would my life look like right now if I hadn't chosen to pause and honour the data? I think there are many options. One is I still may not be CEO after 15 years at the same company, or could have burnt out, made some silly mistakes. Personally, would I be healthy, doing what I'm doing with my kids? Would I have the relationships with my family and friends and colleagues that I have? Probably not. Eventually something would have broken is how I look at it. And it sounds like it already was. With high performers, they're often the last to put their hand up, but the first that needs the help. They're so busy looking after everyone else that they forget that they even matter. How did you retrain that part of your brain? How did you allow yourself to go, if I don't change, even the business won't change? Yeah, I think a lot of people probably didn't really know what was going on for me underneath. You become a good actor, and actually who I was most disappointed in was myself, because I prided myself on being this authentic human, but I was lying, and the one person I was lying to was myself.

journey. Just because you go from one path to another doesn't mean you're on the right path. But it's being receptive and open and looking for those signs. It energised me, because we love challenges, right? This was a challenge to myself more than anything. Sleeping four hours a day, working 18 hours a day, travelling 152 flights a year — that sounds like a heavy challenge. That sounds like hell. LB, you were doing that to yourself as well. We both lived it. And you don't see it as a challenge when you're living it, because it's just what you grow up doing. So for me, the challenge was the other way. The challenge was slowing down. Being present. Reprogramming my mind to say, actually, if I look after myself, I can be a better leader. I can make better decisions. I thought just because I wasn't eating junk food I was healthy, but actually I was starving my body for hours and hours on end, thinking that was better than having something with butter on it. It was just ridiculous. I want to reflect on something we see with a lot of people — fear of missing out. Not the big stuff. We could all do with less corporate events. But fear of missing out in the moment. When you're sitting with the kids playing, you're somewhere else, on an email. We say to people, this is your metric: after you've done this program and started to take care of yourself, it's when you can sit with your kids or a loved one and actually be in the room with them, connected, looking into their eyes — that's when you know it's working. You're not missing out because you're not there. You're missing out because you're not mentally there. So on the conversation of data, you see a lot of health data from Australia, if not the world. There are some scary statistics. People seem to be more sick. Mental health claims have doubled. People are ignoring lifestyle factors of disease — stress, environment, smoking, excessive drinking. We know all of these things to be true, yet we keep doing it. So what does the data tell you that most people aren't hearing? Mental health is the leading cause of disability around the world. We've seen claims double, to the point where 36% of claims we get for disability are for mental health. That's total and permanent disability. And we insure over three and a half million Australians, so it's representative data.

it. Over 90 billion steps were taken last year by Vitality members. They're all related: by moving more, they feel mentally better, and when they're feeling mentally better they make better food choices. We know the 5590 model gives us a blueprint — the five modifiable lifestyle behaviours: move well, eat well, plan well, think well, and the environment. If we can help people make small changes around those five behaviours, we can change the dynamic of the five NCDs that are causing the deaths in Australia. The data's worrying, Tess, but it's also a message of hope, because there are modifiable things we can do. I love how AIA inspires and motivates members to take better care of themselves by rewarding them. If I elevate my status within the Vitality application, I'm rewarded with movie tickets or an Apple Watch. What do you believe is the one thing that stops people from taking better care of themselves? The one thing that probably stops people is them not feeling good about themselves mentally. For me, it was really opening up to that conversation about being comfortable with who you are. The fear of missing out comes when you're looking for the validation from external sources for who you are and your worth. I was clearly doing that. But the moment I was able to start to feel more comfortable — the key for me is that what's stopping people is feeling comfortable with their own identity and who they are, which stops them from making plans into action. When you don't feel comfortable with yourself, you'll come up with a plan, but you don't take the action. Especially male leaders, the super high performers who keep running on this relentless treadmill of pursuit of excellence. If you go back to the beginning, you're seeking validation from somewhere. My driving force was to prove I'm worthy of love. For a lot of men, it can be validation from their fathers — I'm proud of you, son. Is there any truth to that in you, that you're still seeking validation from a father figure that says you've done good, kid, you could slow it down now? Yeah, absolutely, 100%. I was raised in a large family in one house, so maybe I was looking for that validation from all of them. I was trying to earn my place and demonstrate gratitude for the sacrifices they had made. So in some way I've always been working to pay off what I believed was some sort of debt that was not real.

enjoy life. But then it's actually the doing. Yesterday was Easter Monday, so Bailey and I made cookies together, played some table tennis, took the dog for a walk. Kai and I played football, basketball and PlayStation. It's giving them that time. It's not just the words, I love you. It's the time, I love you. And that fills their cup up. They're filling my cup up as well. You need both the words and the actions. Our kids learn from what they see more than what they're told. It's also the behaviours you demonstrate when you don't think they're watching. So what's one standard you'd want your kids to apply so they don't make the same mistakes you've made? For me it is about respecting kindness. There is no tolerance for not having respect for other people. And kindness is the one I really try to demonstrate. The standards start early — in the morning, I make my bed, they make theirs. We do the little things. My standards are number one, respect, and number two, kindness. Everything else comes from that. Chris, we battle with this in raising teenagers — like, do marks at school matter as much when you're going to have an AI agent? It's becoming more and more meaningful to have good values. What's happening at school is decreasing the amount of winners — everybody wins a medal. So earning your way seems to be decreasing. Chris has this thing with the boys — they've played table tennis since they were young, and Chris has never let them win unless it was earned. The other day Ollie actually beat Chris, and the elation and excitement was so good for him, because he earned the win and he knew it. There are moments where you can teach kids in the everyday grind of a father-son or mother-daughter relationship. I love that. Table tennis is a great game. But it's important not to make it too easy for children. I remember if I got McDonald's, it must be Christmas. Once I got a chocolate sundae and thought I'd won Tatts Lotto. But now you look at what our children have, and you want them to earn it, because everyone gets a medal, everyone wins, and that's not the reality of life. So I think it's a really important balance. I call it care and demand. They go together. You've got to be caring, but you've also got to be demanding — demanding of yourself, because you've got a purpose. That's how I apply my leadership and my parenting.

the people we work with is prevention, looking after yourself, helping Australians better their lives — not the fear driving. We need hope, and I can see that at the core of your vision. Thank you for the honesty you brought into this conversation. You've opened up your heart and shown us that true vulnerable leadership creates positive change. Thank you. I really appreciate those comments. You just get up and make a commitment to remember that it's a privilege and a responsibility what we do, and then to just be my best. I'm not always going to get it right, but tomorrow, the next moment is another chance to be that best. The team at AIA is phenomenal in their pursuit of that purpose, and the partners we have, like yourselves, are amazing. No one does it alone. So anything I've achieved has only been the result of everyone pulling together. As part of this partnership you have the Do It For Life campaign, things that you do for your soul. As this conversation has unfolded, it's like your why is do it for life, and that's what you want to inspire other people to do. So what is your do it for life toolkit that can inspire people to take care of themselves? For me, my wellbeing toolkit is really about doses of gratitude, kindness and love. I'm grateful every morning for the privilege and responsibility to lead AIA, that I have two wonderful children, friends and family. I start with that attitude of gratitude and that gets me motivated. Then it's looking at every moment where I can be selfish and give out kindness, because by being kind to others you get so much more back in return. And the last one is love — love yourself and love others, because if you don't love yourself, you're not going to do what that toolkit requires: a little more sleep, a little more movement, better nutrition, that glass of water over the busy drink, taking time to be kind to yourself, breathing and mindfulness. The toolkit for me is more about those things than the actual doing bits. What is one thing you want to leave people with — a message to the person driving to work today thinking I've got some serious changes to make? My message is pretty simple. Think about your why. Why do you want to live a healthier, longer, better life? And then celebrate the small steps. It's not about the big things, it's the small steps. Just one little step at a time and celebrate those. Yes, it's those little micro moments that we celebrate that give us the momentum to keep taking another step every day. Damien, it's been wonderful to have this chat. It's great to see the man behind the brand of AIA Vitality. We have a special gift for our listeners — an AIA age calculator. This may be your first wake-up call. We'll link it in the show notes. From us to you, this has been your wake-up call. If you want to know more, check out AIA Vitality. And if you want to join us for more self-discovery and learning, visit awakeacademy.com.au. Do it for your life. Toodles.